<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>
<P>Hi Art,</P>
<P>This was the second hit on a google search. Looks like things are getting better (NOT)! I think the good Pastor Luther is going to have full bus loads if we start excom. folks. Talk to you when I get back from FLA.</P>
<P>jim</P>
<P> </P>
<P>The following results from a survey of Catholics by <I>The Washington Post</I> (October 2003) were noted during a program on EWTN earlier this year. They underline the fact that the views of Catholics as a whole on moral questions differ little from the rest of the population, e.g., percentages in favour of:</P>
<P>* Birth control (contraception): Catholics 88 percent; General 94 percent.</P>
<P>* Abortion (where there is no danger to the mother's health): Catholics 30 percent; General 39 percent.</P>
<P>* Pre-marital sex: Catholics 60 percent; General 67 percent.</P>
<P>* Homosexual relations: Catholics 48 percent; General 45 percent.</P>
<P><I>ERROL P. DUKE<BR>Elizabeth East, SA</I></P>
<P class=plainsmall>Reprinted from <I>AD2000</I> Vol 17 No 5 (June 2004), p. 15</P>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>>To: apologetics@gathman.org
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: [Apologetics] RE: Birth Control Polls?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:10:19 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Jim,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>You meant this humorously, so I won't hold you to it.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>However, if anyone seriously argued that only 7% of
<DIV></DIV>>Catholics support the Church's doctrine against
<DIV></DIV>>artificial birth control, I'd make them produce the
<DIV></DIV>>evidence of this dubious statement.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>He who asserts must prove.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Art
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80@msn.com> wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Polls have been done over and over and I've never seen
<DIV></DIV>>one even scare 10%. I would guess that if you do a
<DIV></DIV>>google search you can find one.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Jim
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: RE: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>>Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:30:19 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Jim,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Your satire makes an interesting point.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >While there is a diffeence between what someone does
<DIV></DIV>> >privately and what somenone does openly and publicly
<DIV></DIV>> >to dissent from official church teaching, your humor
<DIV></DIV>> >is nevertheless very well done.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Oh, where did you get the 4% to 7%? How would anyone
<DIV></DIV>> >know such a thing?
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Art
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80@msn.com> wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Hello to all you Catholics
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >My name is the Rev. Calvin Luther of "Let's Not Pray
<DIV></DIV>> >to Mary Baptist Church." I have noticed that you
<DIV></DIV>> >Catholics are mighty inconsistent when It comes to
<DIV></DIV>> >excommunicating members of your church. I'd like to
<DIV></DIV>> >help you out of this little problem. Last time I
<DIV></DIV>> >looked only about 4-7% of your members follow the
<DIV></DIV>> >church teaching on the issue of birth control. Why
<DIV></DIV>> >not excommunicate the whole bunch. A few Sundays
<DIV></DIV>>from
<DIV></DIV>> >now just have them all sign what you might call a
<DIV></DIV>> >doctrinal purity statement. I'll have my church
<DIV></DIV>>buses
<DIV></DIV>> >outside all of the Parishes in my neck of the woods
<DIV></DIV>> >and I'll pass the word along to other ministers
<DIV></DIV>> >throughout the country. Just remember, "Jesus came
<DIV></DIV>> >for the righteous". Or was that for sinners? Oh
<DIV></DIV>>heck
<DIV></DIV>> >I can't remember.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >From: Dianne Dawson <rcdianne@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>> > >To: Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>,
<DIV></DIV>> > David Mullaney <MayDay1@aol.com>, Holly Gatling
<DIV></DIV>> ><sccl@bellsouth.net>, Mary Ellen Jackson
<DIV></DIV>> ><maryjackson8@bellsouth.net>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Subject: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>> >Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> > >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:21:01 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >by Phil Lawler
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Other Articles by Phil Lawler
<DIV></DIV>> > >Contact this Author About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>> >Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> > >10/27/04
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > Is Kerry excommunicated or not? If you have been
<DIV></DIV>> >following this, your head may be spinning by now from
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >all the charges, denials and counter-charges.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >The story that caused all the excitement was
<DIV></DIV>>reported
<DIV></DIV>> >in an interview on the October 15, 2004 edition of
<DIV></DIV>> >EWTN’s the World Over Live with Raymond Arroyo and
<DIV></DIV>>was
<DIV></DIV>> >immediately reported online by a CWN (Catholic World
<DIV></DIV>> >News) headline claiming that John Kerry had incurred
<DIV></DIV>> >the penalty of excommunication because of his
<DIV></DIV>> >continued public support for abortion and euthanasia,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >in defiance of Church teaching.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >At the center of the swirling controversy is Marc
<DIV></DIV>> >Balestrieri, a California canon lawyer, who has
<DIV></DIV>> >brought a canonical suit against Kerry (and others),
<DIV></DIV>> >citing his flagrant dissent from Church teachings on
<DIV></DIV>> >the dignity of life. This summer he visited Rome and
<DIV></DIV>> >spoke to officials at the Congregation for the
<DIV></DIV>> >Doctrine of the Faith, asking them whether public
<DIV></DIV>> >support for abortion could be considered heresy, and
<DIV></DIV>> >thus grounds for excommunication. On October 15th, he
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >announced that he had received an affirmative answer.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Balestrieri's announcement drew a firestorm of
<DIV></DIV>> >criticism. Vatican officials insisted that the
<DIV></DIV>>opinion
<DIV></DIV>> >Balestrieri was citing — a 4-page letter from Father
<DIV></DIV>> >Basil Cole, OP, a respected American theologian — was
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >not an official response from the Vatican, nor an
<DIV></DIV>> >authoritative statement of Church policy.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >That is true. But even if Father Cole's letter only
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >expressed his own opinion, it is an opinion worthy of
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >consideration. Marc Balestrieri asked a question, and
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >he received an answer. The answer wasn't "official,"
<DIV></DIV>> >and it didn't come from the Vatican. But it still was
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >an answer. And in the absence of any official
<DIV></DIV>>response
<DIV></DIV>> >from Rome, it was the best answer available!
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Although several other media outlets have claimed
<DIV></DIV>> >that the Vatican has rejected the notion that Kerry
<DIV></DIV>>is
<DIV></DIV>> >subject to excommunication, as I see it, those other
<DIV></DIV>> >outlets have the story wrong.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Let me explain:
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >The Vatican has not said that Father Cole's opinion
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >is in error — only that it is not authoritative.
<DIV></DIV>> >(Technically speaking, the Vatican has said nothing
<DIV></DIV>>at
<DIV></DIV>> >all. There have been a few public comments by
<DIV></DIV>> >individuals working in the Roman Curia, but no
<DIV></DIV>> >"official" statement whatsoever on this topic.)
<DIV></DIV>>Father
<DIV></DIV>> >Cole's judgment remains, at the least, a very
<DIV></DIV>> >defensible position. One Catholic news agency quoted
<DIV></DIV>> >an unnamed Vatican official as saying that Kerry is
<DIV></DIV>> >not a heretic. But an offhand quote from an anonymous
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >source is surely no more "official," and no more
<DIV></DIV>> >persuasive, than a reasoned argument by a respected
<DIV></DIV>> >scholar. And keep in mind that Father Cole's letter
<DIV></DIV>>to
<DIV></DIV>> >Balestrieri was written at the request of a prominent
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >Vatican official, who presumably had a rough idea of
<DIV></DIV>> >what his fellow Dominican would say.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Maybe Marc Balestrieri misled Vatican officials
<DIV></DIV>>about
<DIV></DIV>> >the purpose of his questions, as one of the Vatican
<DIV></DIV>> >officials implied. He insists that he did not, and
<DIV></DIV>>has
<DIV></DIV>> >issued a statement rebutting the charges against him
<DIV></DIV>> >as well as offered documentary proof on his website.
<DIV></DIV>> >Probably he pressed his argument too far, by applying
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >the logic of Father Cole's letter to the particular
<DIV></DIV>> >case of John Kerry. Very likely he undermined his own
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >canonical case by generating premature publicity.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Nevertheless, give Marc Balestrieri credit for this
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >much: He asked a very provocative question: Is a
<DIV></DIV>> >Catholic politician like John Kerry subject to the
<DIV></DIV>> >penalty of excommunication?
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >The answer he received was unofficial. The answer
<DIV></DIV>>was
<DIV></DIV>> >unauthoritative. The answer was debatable. But the
<DIV></DIV>> >answer was Yes.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Phil Lawler is editor of the online service
<DIV></DIV>>Catholic
<DIV></DIV>> >World News. This article is adapted from the CWN
<DIV></DIV>> >Weekly News Summary, and is used with permission of
<DIV></DIV>> >the author.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Like a deer that longs for running waters so my
<DIV></DIV>>soul
<DIV></DIV>> >longs for you, O God.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Ps 42:1
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> > >Do you Yahoo!?
<DIV></DIV>> > >Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We
<DIV></DIV>> >finish.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >_______________________________________________Apologetics
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >mailing
<DIV></DIV>> >listApologetics@gathman.orghttp://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >=====
<DIV></DIV>> >ART KELLY, ATM-S
<DIV></DIV>> >13524 Brightfield Lane
<DIV></DIV>> >Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
<DIV></DIV>> >(703) 904-3763 home
<DIV></DIV>> >arthurkelly@yahoo.com
<DIV></DIV>> >art.kelly@cox.net
<DIV></DIV>> >akelly@americantarget.com
<DIV></DIV>> >ArtK135@Netscape.net
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >_______________________________________________
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<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>=====
<DIV></DIV>>ART KELLY, ATM-S
<DIV></DIV>>13524 Brightfield Lane
<DIV></DIV>>Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
<DIV></DIV>>(703) 904-3763 home
<DIV></DIV>>arthurkelly@yahoo.com
<DIV></DIV>>art.kelly@cox.net
<DIV></DIV>>akelly@americantarget.com
<DIV></DIV>>ArtK135@Netscape.net
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
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