<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>
<P>Hi Art,</P>
<P>In this case, he who is going on vacation in just a few short hours must work his butt of to finish four appraisals before hitting the road. I must say that Christopher West references two recent polls on his most recent audio series about "The Theology of the Body." Janet Smith mentions these same polls on her audio series about Humana Vita. If you check out Deal Hudson (problem boy) he also makes reference to the low percentage of people in the church following this teaching. His programs are in the audio archieve on EWTN audio library. Remind me about his when I get back next Thursday. I can't believe anyone would think that Catholics in this current culture would believe that very many Catholics would follow the church on this one. I do!</P>
<P>Jim<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>>To: apologetics@gathman.org
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: [Apologetics] RE: Birth Control Polls?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:10:19 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Jim,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>You meant this humorously, so I won't hold you to it.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>However, if anyone seriously argued that only 7% of
<DIV></DIV>>Catholics support the Church's doctrine against
<DIV></DIV>>artificial birth control, I'd make them produce the
<DIV></DIV>>evidence of this dubious statement.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>He who asserts must prove.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Art
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80@msn.com> wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Polls have been done over and over and I've never seen
<DIV></DIV>>one even scare 10%. I would guess that if you do a
<DIV></DIV>>google search you can find one.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Jim
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: RE: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>>Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:30:19 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Jim,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Your satire makes an interesting point.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >While there is a diffeence between what someone does
<DIV></DIV>> >privately and what somenone does openly and publicly
<DIV></DIV>> >to dissent from official church teaching, your humor
<DIV></DIV>> >is nevertheless very well done.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Oh, where did you get the 4% to 7%? How would anyone
<DIV></DIV>> >know such a thing?
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Art
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80@msn.com> wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Hello to all you Catholics
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >My name is the Rev. Calvin Luther of "Let's Not Pray
<DIV></DIV>> >to Mary Baptist Church." I have noticed that you
<DIV></DIV>> >Catholics are mighty inconsistent when It comes to
<DIV></DIV>> >excommunicating members of your church. I'd like to
<DIV></DIV>> >help you out of this little problem. Last time I
<DIV></DIV>> >looked only about 4-7% of your members follow the
<DIV></DIV>> >church teaching on the issue of birth control. Why
<DIV></DIV>> >not excommunicate the whole bunch. A few Sundays
<DIV></DIV>>from
<DIV></DIV>> >now just have them all sign what you might call a
<DIV></DIV>> >doctrinal purity statement. I'll have my church
<DIV></DIV>>buses
<DIV></DIV>> >outside all of the Parishes in my neck of the woods
<DIV></DIV>> >and I'll pass the word along to other ministers
<DIV></DIV>> >throughout the country. Just remember, "Jesus came
<DIV></DIV>> >for the righteous". Or was that for sinners? Oh
<DIV></DIV>>heck
<DIV></DIV>> >I can't remember.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >From: Dianne Dawson <rcdianne@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>> > >To: Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>,
<DIV></DIV>> > David Mullaney <MayDay1@aol.com>, Holly Gatling
<DIV></DIV>> ><sccl@bellsouth.net>, Mary Ellen Jackson
<DIV></DIV>> ><maryjackson8@bellsouth.net>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Subject: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>> >Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> > >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:21:01 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >by Phil Lawler
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Other Articles by Phil Lawler
<DIV></DIV>> > >Contact this Author About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>> >Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> > >10/27/04
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > Is Kerry excommunicated or not? If you have been
<DIV></DIV>> >following this, your head may be spinning by now from
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >all the charges, denials and counter-charges.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >The story that caused all the excitement was
<DIV></DIV>>reported
<DIV></DIV>> >in an interview on the October 15, 2004 edition of
<DIV></DIV>> >EWTN’s the World Over Live with Raymond Arroyo and
<DIV></DIV>>was
<DIV></DIV>> >immediately reported online by a CWN (Catholic World
<DIV></DIV>> >News) headline claiming that John Kerry had incurred
<DIV></DIV>> >the penalty of excommunication because of his
<DIV></DIV>> >continued public support for abortion and euthanasia,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >in defiance of Church teaching.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >At the center of the swirling controversy is Marc
<DIV></DIV>> >Balestrieri, a California canon lawyer, who has
<DIV></DIV>> >brought a canonical suit against Kerry (and others),
<DIV></DIV>> >citing his flagrant dissent from Church teachings on
<DIV></DIV>> >the dignity of life. This summer he visited Rome and
<DIV></DIV>> >spoke to officials at the Congregation for the
<DIV></DIV>> >Doctrine of the Faith, asking them whether public
<DIV></DIV>> >support for abortion could be considered heresy, and
<DIV></DIV>> >thus grounds for excommunication. On October 15th, he
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >announced that he had received an affirmative answer.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Balestrieri's announcement drew a firestorm of
<DIV></DIV>> >criticism. Vatican officials insisted that the
<DIV></DIV>>opinion
<DIV></DIV>> >Balestrieri was citing — a 4-page letter from Father
<DIV></DIV>> >Basil Cole, OP, a respected American theologian — was
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >not an official response from the Vatican, nor an
<DIV></DIV>> >authoritative statement of Church policy.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >That is true. But even if Father Cole's letter only
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >expressed his own opinion, it is an opinion worthy of
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >consideration. Marc Balestrieri asked a question, and
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >he received an answer. The answer wasn't "official,"
<DIV></DIV>> >and it didn't come from the Vatican. But it still was
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >an answer. And in the absence of any official
<DIV></DIV>>response
<DIV></DIV>> >from Rome, it was the best answer available!
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Although several other media outlets have claimed
<DIV></DIV>> >that the Vatican has rejected the notion that Kerry
<DIV></DIV>>is
<DIV></DIV>> >subject to excommunication, as I see it, those other
<DIV></DIV>> >outlets have the story wrong.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Let me explain:
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >The Vatican has not said that Father Cole's opinion
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >is in error — only that it is not authoritative.
<DIV></DIV>> >(Technically speaking, the Vatican has said nothing
<DIV></DIV>>at
<DIV></DIV>> >all. There have been a few public comments by
<DIV></DIV>> >individuals working in the Roman Curia, but no
<DIV></DIV>> >"official" statement whatsoever on this topic.)
<DIV></DIV>>Father
<DIV></DIV>> >Cole's judgment remains, at the least, a very
<DIV></DIV>> >defensible position. One Catholic news agency quoted
<DIV></DIV>> >an unnamed Vatican official as saying that Kerry is
<DIV></DIV>> >not a heretic. But an offhand quote from an anonymous
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >source is surely no more "official," and no more
<DIV></DIV>> >persuasive, than a reasoned argument by a respected
<DIV></DIV>> >scholar. And keep in mind that Father Cole's letter
<DIV></DIV>>to
<DIV></DIV>> >Balestrieri was written at the request of a prominent
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >Vatican official, who presumably had a rough idea of
<DIV></DIV>> >what his fellow Dominican would say.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Maybe Marc Balestrieri misled Vatican officials
<DIV></DIV>>about
<DIV></DIV>> >the purpose of his questions, as one of the Vatican
<DIV></DIV>> >officials implied. He insists that he did not, and
<DIV></DIV>>has
<DIV></DIV>> >issued a statement rebutting the charges against him
<DIV></DIV>> >as well as offered documentary proof on his website.
<DIV></DIV>> >Probably he pressed his argument too far, by applying
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >the logic of Father Cole's letter to the particular
<DIV></DIV>> >case of John Kerry. Very likely he undermined his own
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >canonical case by generating premature publicity.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Nevertheless, give Marc Balestrieri credit for this
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >much: He asked a very provocative question: Is a
<DIV></DIV>> >Catholic politician like John Kerry subject to the
<DIV></DIV>> >penalty of excommunication?
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >The answer he received was unofficial. The answer
<DIV></DIV>>was
<DIV></DIV>> >unauthoritative. The answer was debatable. But the
<DIV></DIV>> >answer was Yes.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Phil Lawler is editor of the online service
<DIV></DIV>>Catholic
<DIV></DIV>> >World News. This article is adapted from the CWN
<DIV></DIV>> >Weekly News Summary, and is used with permission of
<DIV></DIV>> >the author.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Like a deer that longs for running waters so my
<DIV></DIV>>soul
<DIV></DIV>> >longs for you, O God.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Ps 42:1
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> > >Do you Yahoo!?
<DIV></DIV>> > >Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We
<DIV></DIV>> >finish.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >_______________________________________________Apologetics
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >mailing
<DIV></DIV>> >listApologetics@gathman.orghttp://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >=====
<DIV></DIV>> >ART KELLY, ATM-S
<DIV></DIV>> >13524 Brightfield Lane
<DIV></DIV>> >Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
<DIV></DIV>> >(703) 904-3763 home
<DIV></DIV>> >arthurkelly@yahoo.com
<DIV></DIV>> >art.kelly@cox.net
<DIV></DIV>> >akelly@americantarget.com
<DIV></DIV>> >ArtK135@Netscape.net
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >_______________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>> >Apologetics mailing list
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<DIV></DIV>> >http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
<DIV></DIV>> >
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<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>=====
<DIV></DIV>>ART KELLY, ATM-S
<DIV></DIV>>13524 Brightfield Lane
<DIV></DIV>>Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
<DIV></DIV>>(703) 904-3763 home
<DIV></DIV>>arthurkelly@yahoo.com
<DIV></DIV>>art.kelly@cox.net
<DIV></DIV>>akelly@americantarget.com
<DIV></DIV>>ArtK135@Netscape.net
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
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