<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>
<P>Polls have been done over and over and I've never seen one even scare 10%. I would guess that if you do a google search you can find one. </P>
<P>Jim<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>>To: Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: RE: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:30:19 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Jim,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Your satire makes an interesting point.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>While there is a diffeence between what someone does
<DIV></DIV>>privately and what somenone does openly and publicly
<DIV></DIV>>to dissent from official church teaching, your humor
<DIV></DIV>>is nevertheless very well done.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Oh, where did you get the 4% to 7%? How would anyone
<DIV></DIV>>know such a thing?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Art
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80@msn.com> wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Hello to all you Catholics
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>My name is the Rev. Calvin Luther of "Let's Not Pray
<DIV></DIV>>to Mary Baptist Church." I have noticed that you
<DIV></DIV>>Catholics are mighty inconsistent when It comes to
<DIV></DIV>>excommunicating members of your church. I'd like to
<DIV></DIV>>help you out of this little problem. Last time I
<DIV></DIV>>looked only about 4-7% of your members follow the
<DIV></DIV>>church teaching on the issue of birth control. Why
<DIV></DIV>>not excommunicate the whole bunch. A few Sundays from
<DIV></DIV>>now just have them all sign what you might call a
<DIV></DIV>>doctrinal purity statement. I'll have my church buses
<DIV></DIV>>outside all of the Parishes in my neck of the woods
<DIV></DIV>>and I'll pass the word along to other ministers
<DIV></DIV>>throughout the country. Just remember, "Jesus came
<DIV></DIV>>for the righteous". Or was that for sinners? Oh heck
<DIV></DIV>>I can't remember.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >From: Dianne Dawson <rcdianne@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>,
<DIV></DIV>> David Mullaney <MayDay1@aol.com>, Holly Gatling
<DIV></DIV>><sccl@bellsouth.net>, Mary Ellen Jackson
<DIV></DIV>><maryjackson8@bellsouth.net>
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>>Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:21:01 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >by Phil Lawler
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Other Articles by Phil Lawler
<DIV></DIV>> >Contact this Author About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>>Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> >10/27/04
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Is Kerry excommunicated or not? If you have been
<DIV></DIV>>following this, your head may be spinning by now from
<DIV></DIV>>all the charges, denials and counter-charges.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >The story that caused all the excitement was reported
<DIV></DIV>>in an interview on the October 15, 2004 edition of
<DIV></DIV>>EWTN’s the World Over Live with Raymond Arroyo and was
<DIV></DIV>>immediately reported online by a CWN (Catholic World
<DIV></DIV>>News) headline claiming that John Kerry had incurred
<DIV></DIV>>the penalty of excommunication because of his
<DIV></DIV>>continued public support for abortion and euthanasia,
<DIV></DIV>>in defiance of Church teaching.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >At the center of the swirling controversy is Marc
<DIV></DIV>>Balestrieri, a California canon lawyer, who has
<DIV></DIV>>brought a canonical suit against Kerry (and others),
<DIV></DIV>>citing his flagrant dissent from Church teachings on
<DIV></DIV>>the dignity of life. This summer he visited Rome and
<DIV></DIV>>spoke to officials at the Congregation for the
<DIV></DIV>>Doctrine of the Faith, asking them whether public
<DIV></DIV>>support for abortion could be considered heresy, and
<DIV></DIV>>thus grounds for excommunication. On October 15th, he
<DIV></DIV>>announced that he had received an affirmative answer.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Balestrieri's announcement drew a firestorm of
<DIV></DIV>>criticism. Vatican officials insisted that the opinion
<DIV></DIV>>Balestrieri was citing — a 4-page letter from Father
<DIV></DIV>>Basil Cole, OP, a respected American theologian — was
<DIV></DIV>>not an official response from the Vatican, nor an
<DIV></DIV>>authoritative statement of Church policy.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >That is true. But even if Father Cole's letter only
<DIV></DIV>>expressed his own opinion, it is an opinion worthy of
<DIV></DIV>>consideration. Marc Balestrieri asked a question, and
<DIV></DIV>>he received an answer. The answer wasn't "official,"
<DIV></DIV>>and it didn't come from the Vatican. But it still was
<DIV></DIV>>an answer. And in the absence of any official response
<DIV></DIV>>from Rome, it was the best answer available!
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Although several other media outlets have claimed
<DIV></DIV>>that the Vatican has rejected the notion that Kerry is
<DIV></DIV>>subject to excommunication, as I see it, those other
<DIV></DIV>>outlets have the story wrong.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Let me explain:
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >The Vatican has not said that Father Cole's opinion
<DIV></DIV>>is in error — only that it is not authoritative.
<DIV></DIV>>(Technically speaking, the Vatican has said nothing at
<DIV></DIV>>all. There have been a few public comments by
<DIV></DIV>>individuals working in the Roman Curia, but no
<DIV></DIV>>"official" statement whatsoever on this topic.) Father
<DIV></DIV>>Cole's judgment remains, at the least, a very
<DIV></DIV>>defensible position. One Catholic news agency quoted
<DIV></DIV>>an unnamed Vatican official as saying that Kerry is
<DIV></DIV>>not a heretic. But an offhand quote from an anonymous
<DIV></DIV>>source is surely no more "official," and no more
<DIV></DIV>>persuasive, than a reasoned argument by a respected
<DIV></DIV>>scholar. And keep in mind that Father Cole's letter to
<DIV></DIV>>Balestrieri was written at the request of a prominent
<DIV></DIV>>Vatican official, who presumably had a rough idea of
<DIV></DIV>>what his fellow Dominican would say.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Maybe Marc Balestrieri misled Vatican officials about
<DIV></DIV>>the purpose of his questions, as one of the Vatican
<DIV></DIV>>officials implied. He insists that he did not, and has
<DIV></DIV>>issued a statement rebutting the charges against him
<DIV></DIV>>as well as offered documentary proof on his website.
<DIV></DIV>>Probably he pressed his argument too far, by applying
<DIV></DIV>>the logic of Father Cole's letter to the particular
<DIV></DIV>>case of John Kerry. Very likely he undermined his own
<DIV></DIV>>canonical case by generating premature publicity.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Nevertheless, give Marc Balestrieri credit for this
<DIV></DIV>>much: He asked a very provocative question: Is a
<DIV></DIV>>Catholic politician like John Kerry subject to the
<DIV></DIV>>penalty of excommunication?
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >The answer he received was unofficial. The answer was
<DIV></DIV>>unauthoritative. The answer was debatable. But the
<DIV></DIV>>answer was Yes.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Phil Lawler is editor of the online service Catholic
<DIV></DIV>>World News. This article is adapted from the CWN
<DIV></DIV>>Weekly News Summary, and is used with permission of
<DIV></DIV>>the author.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul
<DIV></DIV>>longs for you, O God.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Ps 42:1
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> >Do you Yahoo!?
<DIV></DIV>> >Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We
<DIV></DIV>>finish.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>_______________________________________________Apologetics
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<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>=====
<DIV></DIV>>ART KELLY, ATM-S
<DIV></DIV>>13524 Brightfield Lane
<DIV></DIV>>Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
<DIV></DIV>>(703) 904-3763 home
<DIV></DIV>>arthurkelly@yahoo.com
<DIV></DIV>>art.kelly@cox.net
<DIV></DIV>>akelly@americantarget.com
<DIV></DIV>>ArtK135@Netscape.net
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
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