<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>
<P>The reference is a poll that appeared in the Wash Post. I did zero research I just gave you one of the first hits that showed up on a quick google search. </P>
<P>Murf<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>>To: Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: RE: [Apologetics] RE: Birth Control Polls?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Jim,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>When you get back from vacation, enlighten me about:
<DIV></DIV>>ERROL P. DUKE
<DIV></DIV>>Elizabeth East, SA
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Is this the source of your information?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Art
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80@msn.com> wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Hi Art,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>This was the second hit on a google search. Looks
<DIV></DIV>>like things are getting better (NOT)! I think the
<DIV></DIV>>good Pastor Luther is going to have full bus loads if
<DIV></DIV>>we start excom. folks. Talk to you when I get back
<DIV></DIV>>from FLA.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>jim
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>The following results from a survey of Catholics by
<DIV></DIV>>The Washington Post (October 2003) were noted during a
<DIV></DIV>>program on EWTN earlier this year. They underline the
<DIV></DIV>>fact that the views of Catholics as a whole on moral
<DIV></DIV>>questions differ little from the rest of the
<DIV></DIV>>population, e.g., percentages in favour of:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>* Birth control (contraception): Catholics 88 percent;
<DIV></DIV>>General 94 percent.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>* Abortion (where there is no danger to the mother's
<DIV></DIV>>health): Catholics 30 percent; General 39 percent.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>* Pre-marital sex: Catholics 60 percent; General 67
<DIV></DIV>>percent.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>* Homosexual relations: Catholics 48 percent; General
<DIV></DIV>>45 percent.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>ERROL P. DUKE
<DIV></DIV>>Elizabeth East, SA
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Reprinted from AD2000 Vol 17 No 5 (June 2004), p. 15
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: apologetics@gathman.org
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: [Apologetics] RE: Birth Control Polls?
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:10:19 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Jim,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >You meant this humorously, so I won't hold you to it.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >However, if anyone seriously argued that only 7% of
<DIV></DIV>> >Catholics support the Church's doctrine against
<DIV></DIV>> >artificial birth control, I'd make them produce the
<DIV></DIV>> >evidence of this dubious statement.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >He who asserts must prove.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Art
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80@msn.com> wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Polls have been done over and over and I've never
<DIV></DIV>>seen
<DIV></DIV>> >one even scare 10%. I would guess that if you do a
<DIV></DIV>> >google search you can find one.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Jim
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>> > >To: Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Subject: RE: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>> >Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> > >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:30:19 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Jim,
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Your satire makes an interesting point.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >While there is a diffeence between what someone
<DIV></DIV>>does
<DIV></DIV>> > >privately and what somenone does openly and
<DIV></DIV>>publicly
<DIV></DIV>> > >to dissent from official church teaching, your
<DIV></DIV>>humor
<DIV></DIV>> > >is nevertheless very well done.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Oh, where did you get the 4% to 7%? How would
<DIV></DIV>>anyone
<DIV></DIV>> > >know such a thing?
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Art
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80@msn.com> wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Hello to all you Catholics
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >My name is the Rev. Calvin Luther of "Let's Not
<DIV></DIV>>Pray
<DIV></DIV>> > >to Mary Baptist Church." I have noticed that you
<DIV></DIV>> > >Catholics are mighty inconsistent when It comes to
<DIV></DIV>> > >excommunicating members of your church. I'd like
<DIV></DIV>>to
<DIV></DIV>> > >help you out of this little problem. Last time I
<DIV></DIV>> > >looked only about 4-7% of your members follow the
<DIV></DIV>> > >church teaching on the issue of birth control. Why
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >not excommunicate the whole bunch. A few Sundays
<DIV></DIV>> >from
<DIV></DIV>> > >now just have them all sign what you might call a
<DIV></DIV>> > >doctrinal purity statement. I'll have my church
<DIV></DIV>> >buses
<DIV></DIV>> > >outside all of the Parishes in my neck of the woods
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >and I'll pass the word along to other ministers
<DIV></DIV>> > >throughout the country. Just remember, "Jesus came
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >for the righteous". Or was that for sinners? Oh
<DIV></DIV>> >heck
<DIV></DIV>> > >I can't remember.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >From: Dianne Dawson <rcdianne@yahoo.com>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >To: Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>,
<DIV></DIV>> > > David Mullaney <MayDay1@aol.com>, Holly Gatling
<DIV></DIV>> > ><sccl@bellsouth.net>, Mary Ellen Jackson
<DIV></DIV>> > ><maryjackson8@bellsouth.net>
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Subject: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>> > >Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:21:01 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >by Phil Lawler
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Other Articles by Phil Lawler
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Contact this Author About That Whole Kerry
<DIV></DIV>> > >Excommunication Thing
<DIV></DIV>> > > >10/27/04
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > > Is Kerry excommunicated or not? If you have
<DIV></DIV>>been
<DIV></DIV>> > >following this, your head may be spinning by now
<DIV></DIV>>from
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >all the charges, denials and counter-charges.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >The story that caused all the excitement was
<DIV></DIV>> >reported
<DIV></DIV>> > >in an interview on the October 15, 2004 edition of
<DIV></DIV>> > >EWTN’s the World Over Live with Raymond Arroyo and
<DIV></DIV>> >was
<DIV></DIV>> > >immediately reported online by a CWN (Catholic
<DIV></DIV>>World
<DIV></DIV>> > >News) headline claiming that John Kerry had
<DIV></DIV>>incurred
<DIV></DIV>> > >the penalty of excommunication because of his
<DIV></DIV>> > >continued public support for abortion and
<DIV></DIV>>euthanasia,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >in defiance of Church teaching.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >At the center of the swirling controversy is Marc
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Balestrieri, a California canon lawyer, who has
<DIV></DIV>> > >brought a canonical suit against Kerry (and
<DIV></DIV>>others),
<DIV></DIV>> > >citing his flagrant dissent from Church teachings
<DIV></DIV>>on
<DIV></DIV>> > >the dignity of life. This summer he visited Rome
<DIV></DIV>>and
<DIV></DIV>> > >spoke to officials at the Congregation for the
<DIV></DIV>> > >Doctrine of the Faith, asking them whether public
<DIV></DIV>> > >support for abortion could be considered heresy,
<DIV></DIV>>and
<DIV></DIV>> > >thus grounds for excommunication. On October 15th,
<DIV></DIV>>he
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >announced that he had received an affirmative
<DIV></DIV>>answer.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Balestrieri's announcement drew a firestorm of
<DIV></DIV>> > >criticism. Vatican officials insisted that the
<DIV></DIV>> >opinion
<DIV></DIV>> > >Balestrieri was citing — a 4-page letter from
<DIV></DIV>>Father
<DIV></DIV>> > >Basil Cole, OP, a respected American theologian —
<DIV></DIV>>was
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >not an official response from the Vatican, nor an
<DIV></DIV>> > >authoritative statement of Church policy.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >That is true. But even if Father Cole's letter
<DIV></DIV>>only
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >expressed his own opinion, it is an opinion worthy
<DIV></DIV>>of
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >consideration. Marc Balestrieri asked a question,
<DIV></DIV>>and
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >he received an answer. The answer wasn't
<DIV></DIV>>"official,"
<DIV></DIV>> > >and it didn't come from the Vatican. But it still
<DIV></DIV>>was
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >an answer. And in the absence of any official
<DIV></DIV>> >response
<DIV></DIV>> > >from Rome, it was the best answer available!
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Although several other media outlets have claimed
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >that the Vatican has rejected the notion that Kerry
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >is
<DIV></DIV>> > >subject to excommunication, as I see it, those
<DIV></DIV>>other
<DIV></DIV>> > >outlets have the story wrong.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Let me explain:
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >The Vatican has not said that Father Cole's
<DIV></DIV>>opinion
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >is in error — only that it is not authoritative.
<DIV></DIV>> > >(Technically speaking, the Vatican has said nothing
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >at
<DIV></DIV>> > >all. There have been a few public comments by
<DIV></DIV>> > >individuals working in the Roman Curia, but no
<DIV></DIV>> > >"official" statement whatsoever on this topic.)
<DIV></DIV>> >Father
<DIV></DIV>> > >Cole's judgment remains, at the least, a very
<DIV></DIV>> > >defensible position. One Catholic news agency
<DIV></DIV>>quoted
<DIV></DIV>> > >an unnamed Vatican official as saying that Kerry is
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >not a heretic. But an offhand quote from an
<DIV></DIV>>anonymous
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >source is surely no more "official," and no more
<DIV></DIV>> > >persuasive, than a reasoned argument by a respected
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >scholar. And keep in mind that Father Cole's letter
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >to
<DIV></DIV>> > >Balestrieri was written at the request of a
<DIV></DIV>>prominent
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Vatican official, who presumably had a rough idea
<DIV></DIV>>of
<DIV></DIV>> > >what his fellow Dominican would say.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Maybe Marc Balestrieri misled Vatican officials
<DIV></DIV>> >about
<DIV></DIV>> > >the purpose of his questions, as one of the Vatican
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >officials implied. He insists that he did not, and
<DIV></DIV>> >has
<DIV></DIV>> > >issued a statement rebutting the charges against
<DIV></DIV>>him
<DIV></DIV>> > >as well as offered documentary proof on his
<DIV></DIV>>website.
<DIV></DIV>> > >Probably he pressed his argument too far, by
<DIV></DIV>>applying
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >the logic of Father Cole's letter to the particular
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >case of John Kerry. Very likely he undermined his
<DIV></DIV>>own
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >canonical case by generating premature publicity.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Nevertheless, give Marc Balestrieri credit for
<DIV></DIV>>this
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >much: He asked a very provocative question: Is a
<DIV></DIV>> > >Catholic politician like John Kerry subject to the
<DIV></DIV>> > >penalty of excommunication?
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >The answer he received was unofficial. The answer
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >was
<DIV></DIV>> > >unauthoritative. The answer was debatable. But the
<DIV></DIV>> > >answer was Yes.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Phil Lawler is editor of the online service
<DIV></DIV>> >Catholic
<DIV></DIV>> > >World News. This article is adapted from the CWN
<DIV></DIV>> > >Weekly News Summary, and is used with permission of
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > >the author.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Like a deer that longs for running waters so my
<DIV></DIV>> >soul
<DIV></DIV>> > >longs for you, O God.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Ps 42:1
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >---------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Do you Yahoo!?
<DIV></DIV>> > > >Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We
<DIV></DIV>> > >finish.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >_______________________________________________Apologetics
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >mailing
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >listApologetics@gathman.orghttp://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >=====
<DIV></DIV>> > >ART KELLY, ATM-S
<DIV></DIV>> > >13524 Brightfield Lane
<DIV></DIV>> > >Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
<DIV></DIV>> > >(703) 904-3763 home
<DIV></DIV>> > >arthurkelly@yahoo.com
<DIV></DIV>> > >art.kelly@cox.net
<DIV></DIV>> > >akelly@americantarget.com
<DIV></DIV>> > >ArtK135@Netscape.net
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >_______________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>> > >Apologetics mailing list
<DIV></DIV>> > >Apologetics@gathman.org
<DIV></DIV>> > >http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > ><!DSPAM:FFDBA7D885931412128944348>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >=====
<DIV></DIV>> >ART KELLY, ATM-S
<DIV></DIV>> >13524 Brightfield Lane
<DIV></DIV>> >Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
<DIV></DIV>> >(703) 904-3763 home
<DIV></DIV>> >arthurkelly@yahoo.com
<DIV></DIV>> >art.kelly@cox.net
<DIV></DIV>> >akelly@americantarget.com
<DIV></DIV>> >ArtK135@Netscape.net
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >_______________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>> >Apologetics mailing list
<DIV></DIV>> >Apologetics@gathman.org
<DIV></DIV>> >http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> ><!DSPAM:FFDC0357E5124931218757778>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>=====
<DIV></DIV>>ART KELLY, ATM-S
<DIV></DIV>>13524 Brightfield Lane
<DIV></DIV>>Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
<DIV></DIV>>(703) 904-3763 home
<DIV></DIV>>arthurkelly@yahoo.com
<DIV></DIV>>art.kelly@cox.net
<DIV></DIV>>akelly@americantarget.com
<DIV></DIV>>ArtK135@Netscape.net
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>_______________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>Apologetics mailing list
<DIV></DIV>>Apologetics@gathman.org
<DIV></DIV>>http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>><!DSPAM:FFDC5D1A691528812255299680>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div></html>