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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's not formal Catholic doctrine, and probably
never will be. It's the interpretation of the pope, who is a very
insightful theologian. It just makes sense - why would Jesus have died at
any other time? From a view outside of time, it wasn't Jesus's death that
fitted itself into the Passover rituals, it was the Passover rituals that were
timed to prefigure the more important event.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>God bless,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stephen
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT color=#808000>--<BR>Stephen Korsman<BR><A
href="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za"><FONT
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KA<BR></FONT></DIV></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=arthurkelly@yahoo.com href="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com">Art
Kelly</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=apologetics@gathman.org
href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</A> ; <A
title=jmurf80@bellsouth.net href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">Jim Murphy</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 07, 2007 4:42
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Apologetics] Re: Jesus died on
14 Nisan</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Stephen,<BR><BR>The Catholic World News article on this
at<BR><A
href="http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=50362">http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=50362</A><BR>states
in part:<BR><BR>In his homily the Holy Father proposed a new<BR>interpretation
of a puzzling passage from St. John's<BR>Gospel, acknowledging that while it
is a "convincing<BR>solution" to an old question, it is "not
yet<BR>universally accepted." <BR><BR>The Eucharist, the Pope said, has always
been<BR>recognized by Christians as the "new Passover," in<BR>which Christ is
the sacrificial victim. He went on to<BR>observe that St. John, who emphasizes
the Passover<BR>image in his Gosepl, reported that Jesus died on
Good<BR>Friday at just the time when lamb were being slain for<BR>the
traditional Jewish feast. But the other three<BR>Gospels report that Christ
and his disciples had<BR>celebrated the Passover the previous night.
<BR><BR>There is an obvious inconsistency in these accounts,<BR>the Pope
observed. If Jesus died on the day before<BR>Passover-- the time when the
lambs were slain-- "he<BR>could not personally celebrate the Passover meal"
with<BR>his apostles. <BR><BR>The solution to this puzzle, the Pope suggested,
might<BR>be revealed in the discovery of the Qumran writings,<BR>which showed
that some of the Jews of that time<BR>celebrated the Passover according to a
different<BR>calendar. The inconsistency in the Gospel accounts
is<BR>eliminated if Jesus belonged to this group. If this<BR>theory is
accurate, the Pope continued, Jesus<BR>"probably celebrated Passover with his
disciples<BR>following the Qumran calendar-- that is, at least one<BR>day
earlier." <BR><BR>The theory is particularly intriguing, the
Pope<BR>continued, because the Qumran community marked the<BR>Passover without
a lamb. The community also did not<BR>recognize the temple built in Jerusalem
under Herod,<BR>"and was waiting for the new Temple," the Pope said.<BR>Thus
at the Last Supper, Jesus became both the lamb of<BR>sacrifice and "the true
temple-- the living temple--<BR>in which God lives and we can encounter and
adore<BR>Him." <BR><BR>Art<BR><BR>--- Stephen Korsman <<A
href="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za">skorsman@theotokos.co.za</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR>> Hi<BR>> <BR>> I just posted this on my blog
at<BR>><BR><A
href="http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/post/index/378/Jesus-died-on-14-Nisan">http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/post/index/378/Jesus-died-on-14-Nisan</A><BR>>
... for me this was quite exciting to hear from the<BR>> Pope
himself. The homily text is pasted at the end.<BR>> <BR>> God
bless,<BR>> Stephen<BR>> Jesus died on 14 Nisan<BR>> <BR>> Posted
by stephen on April 7, 2007, 1:30 am<BR>> in Catholic issues ( Sabbath
keepers) <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> According to John, Christ died on the
cross at the<BR>> exact moment when in the temples nearby, the
lambs<BR>> were being slaughtered for the Pascal feast. His<BR>> death
coincides with the sacrifice of the lambs.<BR>> That however means that he
died on the eve of<BR>> Passover ... Most of the exegetes were of
the<BR>> opinion that John did not want to give us the exact,<BR>>
historic date of Christ's death, but had instead<BR>> chose a symbolic date
to highlight the one profound<BR>> truth: Jesus is the true Lamb of
God who shed his<BR>> blood for us.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> - HH
Pope Benedict XVI, sermon, 5 April 2007, Holy<BR>> Thursday<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> Sources - Asia News; Annunciations; Whispers in the<BR>>
Loggia [full sermon text]; Young Fogeys<BR>> <BR>> Fr Jay Toborowsky
comments on his Young Fogeys blog:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> But
something else in that Holy Thursday homily<BR>> knocked me out, which I
heard for the first time<BR>> ever. There's always been a battle over
whether the<BR>> Last Supper took place on Passover night or the
day<BR>> before. ... Scholars tell us that, since Passover<BR>> was
always on a fixed date, there were times when it<BR>> fell on the Sabbath,
and then came the dilemma of<BR>> which of God's mandated feasts do you
keep (since<BR>> one involves heavy work and one requires no work
be<BR>> done)? So in his homily, B16 tells of scholarly<BR>> research
that says that the people of Qumran (where<BR>> the Dead Sea scrolls were
found) would, in the case<BR>> of the Passover and Sabbath collision, have
their<BR>> seders the day before, with all the froo-froo, but<BR>>
intentionally without a passover lamb. The<BR>> implications of Jesus and
the 12 apostles having<BR>> such a seder are interesting. With no lamb on
the<BR>> their table, Jesus himself is the Lamb at that seder<BR>>
(adding a whole new profound depth to his command to<BR>> eat his body and
drink his blood).<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I've been waiting years to hear
this most logical 14<BR>> Nisan crucifixion timing from a Catholic priest.
<BR>> And now I hear it from the pope himself. I always<BR>> get
given the 15 Nisan story. The explanation above<BR>> goes a long way
to explain why the Wednesday<BR>> crucifixion theory of Herbert Armstrong
is wrong, so<BR>> ironically it was Herbert Armstrong who was
adamant<BR>> that Jesus died on 14 Nisan.<BR>> <BR>> That is the
obvious time for Jesus to have died. <BR>> After all, Jesus death wasn't
timed to coincide with<BR>> the killing of the lambs, nor was it meant to
be<BR>> approximate; the Passover lamb sacrifice<BR>> foreshadowed
Jesus' death, and its original timing<BR>> was designed to coincide with
Jesus' death. <BR>> <BR>> Post from :<BR>> <A
href="http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/index.php">http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/index.php</A><BR>>
Printed from :<BR>> <A
href="http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/index.php?id=378">http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/index.php?id=378</A>
<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> Dear brothers and sisters,<BR>> <BR>> The reading from
the Book of Exodus we've just heard<BR>> describes the Paschal celebration
of Israel as the<BR>> Mosaic law established its binding form. In
the<BR>> beginning it could be that it was a spring feast of<BR>>
nomads. For Israel, though, it transformed itself<BR>> into a feast of
commemoration, of gratitude and, at<BR>> the same time, of hope. At the
center of the Paschal<BR>> meal, ordered according to strict
liturgical<BR>> regulations, was the lamb as symbol of the<BR>>
liberation from slavery in Egypt. For this, the<BR>> Passover haggadah was
an integral part of the meal<BR>> on top of the lamb: the narrative
recounting of the<BR>> fact that it was God himself who liberated
Israel<BR>> "by his uplifted hand." He, the mysterious and<BR>> hidden
God, revealed himself to be stronger than the<BR>> pharaoh with all the
power he had at his disposal.<BR>> Israel did not forget that God
personally took into<BR>> his hand the story of his people and that this
story<BR>> was continually rooted in communion with God. Israel<BR>> did
not forget God.<BR>> <BR>> The reading of the commemoration was
surrounded by<BR>> words of praise and thanks taken from the
Psalms.<BR>> The thanksgiving and blessing of God reached its<BR>>
culmination in the berakha, which in Greek is termed<BR>> eulogia or
eucaristia: blessing God becomes a<BR>> blessing for those who bless him.
The offering given<BR>> God returns to bless man. All this raises a
bridge<BR>> between the past and present and toward the future:<BR>> the
liberation of Israel was still incomplete. The<BR>> nation also suffered as
a small people in the area<BR>> of tensions amidst great powers. Its
recalling with<BR>> gratitude the act of God in the past, it became
at<BR>> the same time a petition and hope: Bring to<BR>> completion what
you've begun! Give us lasting<BR>> freedom!<BR>> <BR>> This
significant meal of the masses Jesus celebrated<BR>> with his own on the
evening before his Passion. At<BR>> the outset of this context we must
understand the<BR>> new Passover, which He has given us in the Holy<BR>>
Eucharist. In the accounts of the evangelists there<BR>> exists an apparent
contradiction between the Gospel<BR>> of John, on one hand, and that which,
on the other,<BR>> Matthew, Mark and Luke communicate to us.
According<BR>> to John, Jesus died on the cross precisely in the<BR>>
moment in which, in time, the paschal lambs were<BR>> slaughtered. His
death and the sacrifice of the<BR>> lambs coincided. This means, however,
that He died<BR>> on the vigil of Passover and thus wasn't able to<BR>>
celebrate the paschal meal - this, at least, is how<BR>> it appears.
According to the three synoptic Gospels,<BR>> then, the Last Supper of
Jesus was a paschal meal,<BR>> in which traditional form He inserted the
novelty of<BR>> the gift of his body and blood. Until some years<BR>>
ago, this contradiction seemed unsolvable. The<BR>> majority of exegetes
were of the mind that John did<BR>> not wish to communicate to us the true
historic date<BR>> of the death of Jesus, but chose a symbolic date
to<BR>> make evident the most profound truth: Jesus is the<BR>> new and
true lamb who shed his blood for us all.<BR>> <BR>> The discovery of the
writings of Qumran has in the<BR>> meantime found a convincing and possible
solution<BR>> that, while not accepted by all, could still have a<BR>>
high level of probability. We're now in a place to<BR>> say that what John
related is historically precise.<BR>> Jesus really spared his blood on the
vigil of the<BR>> Pasch in the hour of the slaughter of the lambs.<BR>>
However, he celebrated Passover with his disciples<BR>> probably according
to the calendar of Qumran, so at<BR>> least a day prior - it was celebrated
without a<BR>> lamb, as the community of Qumran didn't recognize<BR>>
the temple of Herod and kept vigil for the new<BR>> temple. Jesus therefore
celebrated the Pasch without<BR>> a lamb - no, not without a lamb: in place
of the<BR>> lamb he gave himself, his body and his blood. And so<BR>> he
anticipated his death in a way coherent with his<BR>> word: "No one will
take my life from me, but I<BR>> myself will offer it" (Jn 10:18). In the
moment when<BR>> he offered his body and blood, He gave real<BR>>
completion to this affirmation. He Himself offered<BR>> his life. Only so
did the ancient Pasch obtain its<BR>> true sense.<BR>> <BR>> St John
Chrysostom, in his Eucharistic catechesis,<BR>> once wrote: What are you
saying, Moses? The blood of<BR>> a lamb purifies men? Saves them from
death? How<BR>> could the blood of an animal purifiy men, save men,<BR>>
have power over death? In fact - Chrysostom<BR>> continues - the lamb was
able to constitute only a<BR>> symbolic gesture and thus the expression of
wait and<BR>> hope in One who would be able to complete it that by<BR>>
which the sacrifice of an animal was not capable.<BR>> Jesus celebrated the
Pasch without a lamb and<BR>> without a temple and, still, not without a
lamb and<BR>> without a temple. He himself was the awaited Lamb,<BR>>
the true one, as John the Baptist foresaw at the<BR>> beginning of Jesus'
public ministry: "Behold the<BR>> lamb of God, behold him who takes away
the sin of<BR>> the world!" (Jn 1:29). And He himself is the true<BR>>
temple, the living temple, in which God lives and in<BR>> which we can find
God and worship him. His blood,<BR>> the love of Him who is simultaneously
Son of God and<BR>> true man, one of us, that blood is able to save.
His<BR>> love, that love in which He gave himself freely for<BR>> us, is
that which saves us. The nostalgic rite, in<BR>> some ways lacking
efficacy, that was the slaughter<BR>> of the innocent and immaculate lamb,
found its<BR>> response in Him who has become for us both Lamb and<BR>>
Temple.<BR>> <BR>> So at the center of the new Passover of Jesus,
there<BR>> was the Cross. From it came the new gift brought by<BR>> Him.
And so this remains always in the Holy<BR>> Eucharist, in which we can
celebrate the new Pasch<BR>> with the Apostles along the course of time.
From the<BR>> cross of Christ came the gift. "No one takes my<BR>> life,
but I myself offer it." Now he offers it to<BR>> us. The paschal haggadah,
the commemoration of the<BR>> saving act of God, has become a memorial of
the<BR>> cross and resurrection of Christ - a memory that<BR>> doesn't
simply recall the past, but attracts us into<BR>> the presence of the love
of Christ. And so the<BR>> berakha, the prayer of blessing and thanksgiving
of<BR>> Israel, has become our Eucharistic celebration, in<BR>> which
the Lord blesses our gifts - bread and wine -<BR>> to give himself in them.
Let us pray the Lord to<BR>> help us understand always more profoundly
this<BR>> marvelous mystery, to love it more always and in<BR>> this to
love Himself more always. Let us pray for<BR>> help that we not hold back
our lives for ourselves,<BR>> but to give them to Him and so work together
with<BR>> Him, that men might find life - the true life that<BR>> can
come only from He who, Himself, is the Way, the<BR>> Truth and the Life.
Amen.<BR>> <BR><BR><BR>ART KELLY, ATM-S<BR>13524 Brightfield
Lane<BR>Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360<BR>(703) 904-3763 home<BR>(703) 396-6956
work<BR><A href="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com">arthurkelly@yahoo.com</A><BR><A
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