<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3157" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Art is right about the epiclesis being neglected in
earlier Roman rites. The Tridentine and pre-Tridentine rites, at least
since the 1400's, have included an epiclesis that did not invoke the Holy
Spirit. At least not explicitly. Since no person in the Trinity acts
alone, the Holy Spirit's action is implied. Some Orthodox do modify the
Tridentine liturgy to include the Holy Spirit in the epiclesis.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since the epiclesis was virtually absent in the
Roman rite at some points in time, and is insufficient in the eyes of some
Orthodox in the Tridentine liturgy, it would be hard for the pope to make such a
statement and intend it to be a binding declaration of judgement on whether or
not a liturgy is valid without the epiclesis. In some Western eyes, it has
been considered unnecessary. Technically, prayer to Mary is
unnecessary. But it's important, and I think that is what he's getting
at. Not a binding decree for all people at all times, but rather an
emphasis on pulling the parts together into a better unity.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If he came out and said "<EM>An epiclesis without
invocation of the Holy Spirit is required for a valid consecration</EM>" he'd be
nullifying the Tridentine liturgy he's just liberated. If he came out and
said "<EM>An epiclesis is required for a valid consecration</EM>" he'd be
causing problems for several centuries of Roman rite liturgies.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'd see this as a step towards a more "profound
unity" between the Eastern and Western understanding.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>He hasn't been afraid to break with tradition
before - such as when he suggested that Christ may not have died on Passover
day, which has been the traditional consensus for centuries, but rather the day
before. I think he can see the essence of the faith for what it is, and
see past local definitions, such as East vs West. I got that impression
when he was still Pre16 in the CDF - he was fair, but called a spade a
spade. But he'd let the Latins call a fig a fig, because that is their
expression, and the meaning is the same. He'll open the way to better
understanding without compromising the faith.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>God bless,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stephen</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcdianne@yahoo.com href="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com">Dianne Dawson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=arthurkelly@yahoo.com
href="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com">Art Kelly</A> ; <A
title=apologetics@gathman.org
href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 03, 2007 8:41
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Apologetics] Re: From
NewAdvent.org newsletter</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Art,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You are correct that transubstantiation takes place at the words of
consecration, it is only possible by means of the calling of the Holy Spirit
(the epiclesis).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Per the Holy Father (B16) the epiclesis IS essential to the consecration
because it is only by the calling down of the Holy Spirit (the epiclesis) that
the bread and wine can be changed into Jesus' Body, Blood, Soul, and
Divinity. He says there is a PROFOUND UNITY (emphasis added) between the
epliclesis and the institution narrative. Your statement that the
epiclesis is not neccessary conflicts with what the Holy Father has stated.
(CF below)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>(</FONT><A
href="http://www.stlouisreview.com/abpcolumn.php?abpid=13169"><FONT
color=#0000ff>http://www.stlouisreview.com/abpcolumn.php?abpid=13169</FONT></A><FONT
color=#0000ff>)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>Once again, drawing upon the General Instruction of
the Roman Missal, Pope Benedict XVI lists eight "basic elements of every
Eucharistic Prayer: thanksgiving, acclamation, epiclesis, institution
narrative and consecration, anamnesis, offering, intercessions and final
doxology" (n. 48). The epiclesis is the priest’s calling down of the Holy
Spirit for the consecration of the bread and wine. It takes place right
before the institution narrative containing the words of the
Consecration. <BR><BR>In an earlier part of "Sacramentum Caritatis," our
Holy Father noted the particular enrichment to our spiritual life, which comes
from a deeper appreciation of the relationship of the calling-down of the Holy
Spirit in the epiclesis and the words of Christ by which the bread and wine
are changed into His Body and Blood (n.13). Once again, our Holy Father
draws our attention to "the profound unity between the invocation of the Holy
Spirit and the institution narrative" (n. 48). At the epiclesis, the
Church prays for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, in order that the elements
of bread and wine may be changed into the Body and Blood of Christ, and the
faithful who receive the Body and Blood of Christ may be transformed more and
more into Christ’s likeness. <BR></FONT><BR>Dianne<BR></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf>Like a deer that longs
for running waters so my soul longs for you, O
God.</FONT></EM></DIV></FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">Ps
42:1</FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf
size=1></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf
size=1></FONT></EM> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR SIZE=1>
<A
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48250/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v9.php?o=US2226&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=AprNI&s=Y&s2=EM&b=50">Pinpoint
customers </A>who are looking for what you sell. </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>