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<DIV><FONT size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Off Dave Armstrong's recent post at <A
href="http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/09/brief-reply-to-michael-spencers-five.html">http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/09/brief-reply-to-michael-spencers-five.html</A>:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,255)">3) What would be the church’s view on
someone who is convinced the Catholic faith is true, but who is unable or
chooses not to openly convert to Catholicism at this time? Is such a person
committing a sin?</SPAN><BR><BR>There are many sensitive family matters that
the Church respects. We urge potential converts to take their time and think
through the issues very seriously and at length, accompanied by much prayer
and reflection. If someone is in a long spiritual process where they are
possibly considering becoming a Catholic, we would strongly urge this
approach.<BR><BR>If, however, a person states that they are absolutely
convinced of the truth of the Catholic faith, then there comes a point when we
would say that they are obligated to be received into the Church, even if it
causes difficulty, because they have to follow their conscience. It comes down
to the individual situation, but it could indeed possibly be a sin if a person
is convinced and goes years and years without acting upon that knowledge. God
holds us responsible for what we know.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=2>God bless,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Stephen</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bbellamy@mindspring.com href="mailto:bbellamy@mindspring.com">Bret
Bellamy</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=skorsman@theotokos.co.za
href="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za">Stephen Korsman</A> ; <A
title=apologetics@gathman.org
href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 27, 2007 3:48
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Apologetics] Re: Another
Episcopal bishop decides to convert</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Interesting. I'd seen a posting on this ECUSA bishop a
few days ago on Free Republic. I guess he had to go through the proper
"permission" procedures to leave on a good note. When I left the ECUSA
just over four years ago, I gave my rector about three weeks notice and met
with him to discuss my decision and reasons for leaving. He was/is a
good and fine man and deserved that courtesy, he and I had a very good
relationship. If I'd been somewhere else, I'd have simply given written
notice and left without meeting or talking to anyone. But St. Mary's
parish and Fr. Merrow were good to me during my six years there, and they
deserved special consideration. Of course, if I'd been elsewhere, I
would have left the ECUSA long before I did.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">-----Original
Message----- <BR>From: Stephen Korsman <SKORSMAN@THEOTOKOS.CO.ZA><BR>Sent:
Sep 27, 2007 2:19 AM <BR>To: Apologetics Group
<APOLOGETICS@GATHMAN.ORG><BR>Subject: Re: [Apologetics] Re: Another
Episcopal bishop decides to convert <BR><BR><ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD><ZZZMETA
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I agree entirely with those sentiments.
Anglican ordination was invalid in the past, and for a large part, still
is. There are a few debatable issues today, where Old Catholic and
various Orthodox bishops are included in the consecration. In such
cases, the correct intent and form are possibly there (I haven't
checked the details) and many Anglicans are almost Catholic in their beliefs
in the 7 sacraments, the Eucharist, and many other things, and the problems
with ordination originally identified centuries ago may not be present in
some cases.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's an interesting debate ... one that is
extemely hard to solve. For the purposes of love [I forget the better
word], a conditional ordination is suitable, although an absolute one I
won't object to. Either way, it effects a true one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The Anglican communion has made a mess of
things. It's good to see such returns home. It would be good to
see an entire branch re-unite.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I find it hard to understand the reasoning
behind waiting to get permission etc before leaving. Once a decision
is made, it seems logical to make a complete move ASAP. But there are
many factors involved.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>God bless,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stephen</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=arthurkelly@yahoo.com href="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com">Art
Kelly</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=apologetics@gathman.org
href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 27, 2007
6:49 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Apologetics] Re: Another
Episcopal bishop decides to convert</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Please read my comments on Bishop Stenson in the
CWN<BR>blog at<BR><A
href="http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=53708">http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=53708</A><BR>and
my prior comments on Bishop Pope at<BR><A
href="http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=52827">http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=52827</A><BR>as
well as my comments on Anglican ordinations at<BR><A
href="http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=52537">http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=52537</A><BR><BR>Art<BR><BR>---
Dianne Dawson <<A
href="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com">rcdianne@yahoo.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR>> Another Episcopal bishop decides to convert <BR>>
Posted: 23 Sep 2007 02:33 PM CDT<BR>> For the third time this
year, an Episcopal bishop<BR>> is leaving his flock to join the
Catholic Church. <BR>> <BR>> The following comes from The Living
Church<BR>> Foundation, which serves the Episcopalian church: <BR>>
The Rt. Rev. Jeffrey N. Steenson, Bishop of the Rio<BR>> Grande, will
resign from his position and become a<BR>> Roman Catholic, The Living
Church has learned.<BR>> <BR>> In a letter to the clergy of his
diocese, Bishop<BR>> Steenson said a pastoral letter to all the people
of<BR>> the diocese would follow in a few days. He said he<BR>> had
invited Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts<BR>> Schori to attend the
Rio Grande clergy conference<BR>> Sept. 26.<BR>> <BR>> "I . have
sensed how important it is for those of us<BR>> in this position to
model a gracious way to leave<BR>> The Episcopal Church in a manner
respectful of its<BR>> laws," he wrote.<BR>> <BR>> Bishop
Steenson was attending the House of Bishops'<BR>> meeting in New
Orleans and plans to make an<BR>> announcement concerning his decision
on Monday.<BR>> <BR>> In an interview with The Living Church to
be<BR>> published in a forthcoming issue, Bishop Steenson<BR>> said
the meeting of the House of Bishops at Camp<BR>> Allen in the spring
had a major effect on his<BR>> decision.<BR>> <BR>> "The spring
meeting of the House of Bishops, when<BR>> the majority said that The
Episcopal Church was<BR>> fundamentally autonomous and local," he said.
"This<BR>> is not the Catholic doctrine of the Church, and it<BR>>
will lead to many unfortunate consequences."<BR>> <BR>> The bishop
has been the diocesan in the<BR>> Albuquerque-based diocese since 2005.
He was canon<BR>> to the ordinary under Bishop Terence Kelshaw
for<BR>> five years before being elected to the episcopate.<BR>>
Prior to that, he was rector of All Saints' Church,<BR>> Wynnewood,
Pa., Good Shepherd, Rosemont, Pa., and<BR>> St. Andrew's, Fort Worth.
He is a member of the<BR>> Board of Trustees of Nashotah House and the
Board of<BR>> Directors of the Living Church Found<BR>> <BR>> "My
conscience is deeply troubled," he said in a<BR>> statement prepared
for the House of Bishops,<BR>> "because I sense that the obligations of
my ministry<BR>> in The Episcopal Church may lead me to a place
apart<BR>> from scripture and tradition. I am concerned that if<BR>>
I do not listen to and act in accordance with<BR>> conscience now, it
will become harder and harder to<BR>> hear God's voice."<BR>>
<BR>> Bishop Steenson said he had spoken with the<BR>> Presiding
Bishop "for her counsel and prayers," and<BR>> said he would ask the
House of Bishops for<BR>> permission to resign as the ordinary of his
diocese.<BR>> He said he would do this by the end of the year,
and<BR>> added that he hoped then to be released from his<BR>>
ordination vows in The Episcopal Church.<BR>> <BR>> He called the
bishops' meeting last March "a<BR>> profoundly disturbing experience
for me. I was more<BR>> than a little surprised when such a
substantial<BR>> majority declared the polity of the Episcopal
Church<BR>> to be primarily that of an autonomous and<BR>>
independent local church relating to the wider<BR>> Anglican Communion
by voluntary association. This is<BR>> not the Anglicanism in which I
was formed, inspired<BR>> by the Oxford Movement and the Catholic
Revival in<BR>> the Church of England . honestly, I did not<BR>>
recognize the church that this House described on<BR>> that
occasion."<BR>> <BR>> Regarding his move to the Roman Catholic
Church,<BR>> Bishop Steenson said, "I believe that the Lord now<BR>>
calls me in this direction. It amazes me, after all<BR>> of these
years, what a radical journey of faith this<BR>> must necessarily be.
To some it seems foolish; to<BR>> others disloyal; to others an
abandonment."<BR>> <BR>> Bishop Steenson will be the third bishop of
The<BR>> Episcopal Church to become a Roman Catholic this<BR>> year.
Bishop Dan Herzog of Albany moved shortly<BR>> after his retirement in
January. Bishop Clarence C.<BR>> Pope, retired Bishop of Fort Worth,
returned to<BR>> Roman Catholicism in August.<BR>> <BR>>
Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul<BR>> longs for
you, O God.<BR>> Ps 42:1<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>><BR>____________________________________________________________________________________<BR>>
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<BR>> <BR><BR><BR>ART KELLY, ATM-S<BR>13524 Brightfield
Lane<BR>Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360<BR>(703) 904-3763 home<BR>(703)
396-6956 work<BR><A
href="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com">arthurkelly@yahoo.com</A><BR><A
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href="mailto:ArtK135@Netscape.net">ArtK135@Netscape.net</A><BR><BR><BR>
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