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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Are you saying that paragraph 20 authorizes
Eastern Rite churches can celebrate Easter whenever they want? If so, I
don't read it the same way at all - especially taking into account #19 &
20.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">No, not whenever they want - but on one of the two
dates used, as the patriarch sees fit in conjunction with his Orthodox
counterpart. So the Maronites are stuck with the Gregorian calendar, as
are any individual Eastern Churches with Orthodox counterparts that use the
Gregorian calendar, such as, possibly, the Indians. The first part of #19
seems more restrictive, but it could be read 2 ways. Only a council or
Rome may transfer Easter for ALL Eastern Churches, but within one Church Easter
may be held at either accepted time. A less obvious reading, yes, but Rome
is happy with what is done, and it seems fine in light of #20.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">The Armenian Orthodox, mentioned in the original
article as celebrating Easter this coming weekend, are one denomination with two
Easters - the only one, as far as I know, amongst the non-Catholic
Easterners. There are three patriarchates within the Armenian Orthodox,
and only Jerusalem uses the Julian date, which explains the nitwits attacking
each other now, while <A
href="http://www.armenianchurch.org/">http://www.armenianchurch.org/</A>, which
falls under the Etchmiadzin Patriarchate, shows them having kept Easter already
[along with the Cilicians, the third Patriarchate.] The two adopted the
Gregorian calendar in 1920; Jerusalem remained with the rest of the Orthodox in
Jerusalem.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">The Syrian Orthodox are having Easter this coming
weekend, while the Malankara Orthodox had Easter with us; since they fall under
the Syrian Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch, but are also somewhat different, I
don't know if they can be called "one local Church." I'll ask them.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">God bless,</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Stephen</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcdianne@yahoo.com href="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com">Dianne Dawson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=skorsman@theotokos.co.za
href="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za">Stephen Korsman</A> ; <A
title=apologetics@gathman.org
href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:58
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Apologetics] Catholic
Easter this weekend</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi Stephen,<BR><BR>I believe all the paragraphs in the section
need to be considered, not just the one paragraph:<BR>
<H3 style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: rgb(56,83,118)">DIVINE WORSHIP</H3>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: rgb(56,83,118)">19. It belongs only to
an ecumenical council or to the Apostolic See to determine, transfer or
suppress feast days common to all the Eastern Churches. On the other hand, to
determine, transfer or suppress the feast days of any of the individual
churches is within the competence not only of the Apostolic See but also of
the patriarchal or archiepiscopal synod, due regard being had to the whole
area and the other individual churches.[24]</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: rgb(56,83,118)">20. Until such time as
all Christians are agreed on a fixed day for the celebration of Easter, with a
view meantime to promoting unity among the Christians of the same area or
nation, it is left to the patriarchs or supreme authorities of a place to come
to an agreement by the unanimous consent and combined counsel of those
affected to celebrate the feast of Easter on the same Sunday.[25]</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: rgb(56,83,118)">21. Individual faithful
dwelling outside the area or territory of their own rite may follow completely
the established custom of the place where they live as regards the law of the
sacred seasons. In families of mixed rite it is permissible to observe this
law according to one and the same rite.[26]</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: rgb(56,83,118)">22. Eastern clerics and
Religious should celebrate in accordance with the prescriptions and traditions
of their own established custom the Divine Office, which from ancient times
has been held in high honor in all Eastern Churches.[27] The faithful too
should follow the example of their forebears and assist devoutly as occasion
allows at the Divine Office.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: rgb(56,83,118)">23. It belongs to the
patriarch with his synod, or to the supreme authority of each church with the
council of the hierarchs, to regulate the use of languages in the sacred
liturgical functions and, after reference to the Apostolic See, of approving
translations of texts into the vernacular.[28] </DIV>Are you saying that
paragraph 20 authorizes Eastern Rite churches can celebrate Easter whenever
they want? If so, I don't read it the same way at all - especially
taking into account #19 & 20.<BR><BR>Dianne<BR><BR><B><I>Stephen Korsman
<skorsman@theotokos.co.za></I></B> wrote:
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regarding Catholics keeping "Orthodox"
Easter:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#663300></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#663300>DECREE ON THE CATHOLIC CHURCHES <BR>OF THE EASTERN
RITE<BR><B><I><FONT size=+1>ORIENTALIUM
ECCLESIARUM</FONT></I></B><BR>SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS<BR>POPE
PAUL VI<BR>ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#663300></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>20. Until such time as all Christians are agreed on a fixed day for the
celebration of Easter, with a view meantime to promoting unity among the
Christians of the same area or nation, it is left to the patriarchs or
supreme authorities of a place to come to an agreement by the unanimous
consent and combined counsel of those affected to celebrate the feast of
Easter on the same Sunday.(25)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(25) Cfr. Syn. Vaticana II Const. De Sacra Liturgia, 4 dec. 1963.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't know what Const. De Sacra Liturgia
is; Orientalium Ecclesiarum, however, is a Vatican II
document.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#663300>CONSTITUTION <BR>ON THE SACRED LITURGY
<BR><B><I><FONT size=+1>SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM</FONT></I></B> <BR>SOLEMNLY
PROMULGATED BY <BR>HIS HOLINESS<BR>POPE PAUL VI <BR>ON DECEMBER 4,
1963</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#663300></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This matches the "Const. De Sacra Liturgia"
name in Latin, but why footnote it as that and not "Sacrosanctum
Concilium"?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The closest I can get to anything in it
relevant to the date of Easter is a statement of non-objection to using a
fixed Sunday every year, or similar:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>
<OL>
<LI>The Sacred Council would not object if the feast of Easter were
assigned to a particular Sunday of the Gregorian Calendar, provided that
those whom it may concern, especially the brethren who are not in
communion with the Apostolic See, give their assent.
<LI>The sacred Council likewise declares that it does not oppose efforts
designed to introduce a perpetual calendar into civil society.
</LI></OL></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Referenes - both can be found linked
from <A
href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm">http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>God bless,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stephen</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=arthurkelly@yahoo.com href="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com">Art
Kelly</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=apologetics@gathman.org
href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</A> ; <A
title=jmurf80@bellsouth.net href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">Jim
Murphy</A> ; <A title=arochaallen@juno.com
href="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com">Michele Allen</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, April 21, 2008 11:45 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[Apologetics] Greek and Amenian Christians clash at Jesus' tomb on
Orthodox Palm Sunday</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<TR>
<TD>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff><FONT color=#000000><STRONG>Greek and
Amenian Christians clash at Jesus' tomb on Orthodox Palm
Sunday</STRONG> </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff><FONT
color=#000000><!-- END HEADLINE --></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV id=ynmain><!-- BEGIN STORY BODY --><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV id=storybody><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV class=storyhdr><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#4040ff>By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press
Writer</FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#4040ff>Sun Apr 20, 3:49 PM
ET</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT> </DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV class=spacer></DIV></DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff>Dozens of Greek and Armenian priests and
worshippers exchanged blows at one of Christianity's holiest shrines
on Orthodox Palm Sunday, and used palm fronds to pummel police who
tried to break up the brawl.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT> </DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff>The fight came amid growing rivalry over
religious rights at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, built over the
site in Jerusalem where tradition says Jesus was buried and
resurrected.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT> </DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff>It erupted when Armenian clergy kicked out
a Greek priest from their midst, pushed him to the ground and kicked
him, according to witnesses.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT> </DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff>When police intervened, some worshippers
hit them with the palm fronds they were holding for the religious
holiday. The Eastern Orthodox churches, including the Armenians and
Greek Orthodox, follow a different calendar from Western Christians
and celebrate Easter next Sunday.</FONT></DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT> </DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff>Two Armenian worshippers who attacked the
Greek Orthodox clergy were briefly detained by Israeli police.
Scores of Armenian supporters then protested outside the police
station during the questioning of the two, beating drums and
chanting.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT> </DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff>The full article is at</FONT></DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff><A
href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080420/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_clashing_christians;_ylt=ArhCBfrxSspUF4DKLvTiheOs0NUE">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080420/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_clashing_christians;_ylt=ArhCBfrxSspUF4DKLvTiheOs0NUE</A></FONT></DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT> </DIV><FONT
color=#4040ff></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff><STRONG><FONT
size=4>Art</FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf>Like a deer that longs
for running waters so my soul longs for you, O
God.</FONT></EM></DIV></FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">Ps
42:1</FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf
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<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf
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