<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">I strongly suspect it's more of an ego-thing at this point and there won't be any reconciliation - but one can always pray, for nothing is impossible for God.<br><br>Dianne<br><div> </div><div><div><div><font color="#0000bf"><em><font face="comic sans ms"><div><em><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS">Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul longs for you, O God.</font></em></div></font></em></font></div><div><font color="#0000bf"><em><font face="comic sans ms">Ps 42:1</font></em></font></div><div><em><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS" size="1"></font></em> </div><div><em><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS" size="1"></font></em> </div></div></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><br><div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">----- Original Message ----<br>From: Stephen Korsman <skorsman@theotokos.co.za><br>To: Dianne Dawson <rcdianne@yahoo.com>; Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org>; Jim Murphy <jmurf80@bellsouth.net>; Michele Allen <arochaallen@juno.com>; Lynn Kelly <lkelly@nvrinc.com>; Nancy Penta <nancy.penta@loudoun.gov>; Carol Beutner <buet4u@verizon.net>; Mary Sullivan <maryshanno@gmail.com><br>Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:06:20 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?<br><br>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Hi</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I totally agree. It's interesting,
yes.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I think I just took your statement and rephrased it
... then took it a bit further. Sorry if I took you too much out of
context.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">These are really more than
ultra-conservatives. They're extremists. They're like the Amish,
only liturgically so.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">By the end of the week we'll know, hopefully, what
the SSPX decides about reunion.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">God bless,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Stephen</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a rel="nofollow" title="rcdianne@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com">Dianne Dawson</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="skorsman@theotokos.co.za" ymailto="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za" target="_blank" href="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za">Stephen Korsman</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="apologetics@gathman.org" ymailto="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="jmurf80@bellsouth.net" ymailto="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">Jim Murphy</a>
; <a rel="nofollow" title="arochaallen@juno.com" ymailto="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com">Michele
Allen</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="lkelly@nvrinc.com" ymailto="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com">Lynn
Kelly</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="nancy.penta@loudoun.gov" ymailto="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov" target="_blank" href="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov">Nancy Penta</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="buet4u@verizon.net" ymailto="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net">Carol Beutner</a> ;
<a rel="nofollow" title="maryshanno@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com">Mary
Sullivan</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 23, 2008 11:45
PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are
Here Again?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Stephen,<br>I
believe I said that they "tend to lean more toward the
ultra-conservative." While I don't agree with their stance on the <span style="font-style: italic;">Novus Ordo</span> or the papacy, those views <span style="text-decoration: underline;">don't</span> make the article
uninteresting.<br>Dianne
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font color="#0000bf"><em><font face="comic sans ms">
<div><em><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS">Like a deer that longs
for running waters so my soul longs for you, O
God.</font></em></div></font></em></font></div>
<div><font color="#0000bf"><em><font face="comic sans ms">Ps
42:1</font></em></font></div>
<div><em><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS" size="1"></font></em> </div>
<div><em><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS" size="1"></font></em> </div></div></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br><br>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">-----
Original Message ----<br>From: Stephen Korsman <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za" target="_blank" href="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za">skorsman@theotokos.co.za</a>><br>To:
Dianne Dawson <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com">rcdianne@yahoo.com</a>>; Apologetics Group
<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">apologetics@gathman.org</a>>;
Jim Murphy <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">jmurf80@bellsouth.net</a>>; Michele
Allen <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com">arochaallen@juno.com</a>>;
Lynn Kelly <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com">lkelly@nvrinc.com</a>>;
Nancy Penta <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov" target="_blank" href="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov">nancy.penta@loudoun.gov</a>>; Carol
Beutner <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net">buet4u@verizon.net</a>>;
Mary Sullivan <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com">maryshanno@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent:
Monday, June 23, 2008 12:16:36 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are
Here Again?<br><br>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Hi</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The Traditional Mass website appears to be run by
ultra-"conservatives", yes - more "conservative" than the SSPX. In fact,
they appear to be an SSPX splinter group, and sede vacantists at
that.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The website links to their parish - <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.sgg.org/">http://www.sgg.org/</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The parish website links to a page about their
clergy - <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.sgg.org/general-info/clergy/">http://www.sgg.org/general-info/clergy/</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Their bishop was ordained a priest by Lefebvre,
and later left due to Lefebvre's liturgical reforms.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The page states:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font color="#800080" face="Arial" size="2">As a seminarian at Ecône in autumn
1973, he had already come to the conclusion that the only logical explanation
for evil of the the New Mass and the errors of Vatican II was that Paul VI,
due to personal heresy, had lost the pontificate. Ever since, he has
steadfastly held that position regarding Paul VI and his successors, and never
once acknowledged them as popes in the Canon of his Mass.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Their articles at <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/index.php">http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/index.php</a> include
several on the heresies of Pope (they don't call him that) Benedict XVI, and a
host of other oddities, including their sede vacantist position.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Their seminary is the Most Holy Trinity Seminary
in Warren, Michigan, is sede vacantist:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#800080">The Seminary professes that
Vatican II and the doctrinal, disciplinary and liturgical reforms which have
proceeded from it are substantial alterations of the Catholic Faith. It
professes that these heretical, evil, and blasphemous reforms can in no way
proceed from the Roman Catholic Church, since she is infallible in her
doctrines, her disciplines, and her liturgical worship. The Seminary therefore
professes that the members of the Novus Ordo hierarchy (including and
especially Benedict XVI), despite any and all appearances of authority, are
not true Catholic popes nor true Catholic bishops, and do not possess the
authority to rule, for they are the authors of the doctrinal, disciplinary and
liturgical abominations which have invaded our holy places. The Seminary
professes that they are false shepherds, and ought to be denounced as
such.</font> -- <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/aboutus.htm">http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/aboutus.htm</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">God bless,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Stephen</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a rel="nofollow" title="rcdianne@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com">Dianne Dawson</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a rel="nofollow" title="apologetics@gathman.org" ymailto="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="jmurf80@bellsouth.net" ymailto="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">Jim
Murphy</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="arochaallen@juno.com" ymailto="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com">Michele Allen</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="lkelly@nvrinc.com" ymailto="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com">Lynn Kelly</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="nancy.penta@loudoun.gov" ymailto="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov" target="_blank" href="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov">Nancy
Penta</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="buet4u@verizon.net" ymailto="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net">Carol
Beutner</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="maryshanno@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com">Mary Sullivan</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, June 23, 2008 3:11 PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Even
though the folks at <span style="font-style: italic;">Traditional Mass</span>
tend to lean more toward the ultra-conservative, there is an interesting
comparison of the Pius V Mass and the John XXIII Mass at: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=18&catname=6">http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=18&catname=6</a><br><br>Also,
there is an interesting forum discussion, "<font size="3">How does the EF
(1962) differ from the Mass of the 1950's?"</font> at: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=431">http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=431</a><br><br>Dianne<br>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font color="#0000bf"><em><font face="comic sans ms">
<div><em><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS">Like a deer
that longs for running waters so my soul longs for
you, O God.</font></em></div></font></em></font></div>
<div><font color="#0000bf"><em><font face="comic sans ms">Ps
42:1</font></em></font></div>
<div><em><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS" size="1"></font></em> </div>
<div><em><font color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS" size="1"></font></em> </div></div></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br><br>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">-----
Original Message ----<br>From: Art Kelly <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com">arthurkelly@yahoo.com</a>><br>To:
Apologetics Group <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">apologetics@gathman.org</a>>;
Jim Murphy <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">jmurf80@bellsouth.net</a>>;
Michele Allen <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com">arochaallen@juno.com</a>>; Lynn
Kelly <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com">lkelly@nvrinc.com</a>>; Nancy Penta
<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov" target="_blank" href="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov">nancy.penta@loudoun.gov</a>>;
Carol Beutner <buet4u@verizon.net>; Mary Sullivan
<maryshanno@gmail.com><br>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 11:52:44
PM<br>Subject: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?<br><br>
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<td style="font-family: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign="top">
<p><strong><font size="4">Latin Days Are Here Again?</font></strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p>In <em>Newsweek</em>, George Weigel writes in part:<br></p>
<p>It was to accelerate that "reform of the reform" that Benedict XVI
issued a decree last summer permitting the widespread use of the 1962
Roman rite, known technically as the Missal of <a rel="nofollow" class="related" title="Pope John XXIII" target="_blank" href="http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Pope+John+XXIII">John XXIII</a>. Amidst the recent, fevered
speculations that Latin days are here again, it's important to note
what the Missal of John XXIII is <em>not</em>. It is not the
"Tridentine Rite," because it includes modifications of the missal
mandated by the Council of Trent in the 16th century; it is not the
"mass of Pius V," which some Catholic megatraditionalists argue is the
only valid form of Catholic worship. It is, in fact, the mass as
celebrated every day at every session of the Second Vatican
Council.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The full article is at</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.newsweek.com/id/142217">http://www.newsweek.com/id/142217</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font color="#0000ff" size="3">Art</font></strong></p></td></tr></tbody></table><br></div></div></div><br></blockquote></div></div></div><br></blockquote></div></div></div><br>
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