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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I totally agree. It's interesting,
yes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think I just took your statement and rephrased it
... then took it a bit further. Sorry if I took you too much out of
context.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>These are really more than
ultra-conservatives. They're extremists. They're like the Amish,
only liturgically so.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>By the end of the week we'll know, hopefully, what
the SSPX decides about reunion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>God bless,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stephen</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcdianne@yahoo.com href="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com">Dianne Dawson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=skorsman@theotokos.co.za
href="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za">Stephen Korsman</A> ; <A
title=apologetics@gathman.org
href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</A> ; <A
title=jmurf80@bellsouth.net href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">Jim Murphy</A>
; <A title=arochaallen@juno.com href="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com">Michele
Allen</A> ; <A title=lkelly@nvrinc.com href="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com">Lynn
Kelly</A> ; <A title=nancy.penta@loudoun.gov
href="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov">Nancy Penta</A> ; <A
title=buet4u@verizon.net href="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net">Carol Beutner</A> ;
<A title=maryshanno@gmail.com href="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com">Mary
Sullivan</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 23, 2008 11:45
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are
Here Again?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Stephen,<BR>I
believe I said that they "tend to lean more toward the
ultra-conservative." While I don't agree with their stance on the <SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">Novus Ordo</SPAN> or the papacy, those views <SPAN
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">don't</SPAN> make the article
uninteresting.<BR>Dianne
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf>Like a deer that longs
for running waters so my soul longs for you, O
God.</FONT></EM></DIV></FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">Ps
42:1</FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf
size=1></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf
size=1></FONT></EM> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR><BR>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">-----
Original Message ----<BR>From: Stephen Korsman <<A
href="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za">skorsman@theotokos.co.za</A>><BR>To:
Dianne Dawson <<A
href="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com">rcdianne@yahoo.com</A>>; Apologetics Group
<<A href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">apologetics@gathman.org</A>>;
Jim Murphy <<A
href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">jmurf80@bellsouth.net</A>>; Michele
Allen <<A href="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com">arochaallen@juno.com</A>>;
Lynn Kelly <<A href="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com">lkelly@nvrinc.com</A>>;
Nancy Penta <<A
href="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov">nancy.penta@loudoun.gov</A>>; Carol
Beutner <<A href="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net">buet4u@verizon.net</A>>;
Mary Sullivan <<A
href="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com">maryshanno@gmail.com</A>><BR>Sent:
Monday, June 23, 2008 12:16:36 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are
Here Again?<BR><BR>
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MARGIN:0px;}
</STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The Traditional Mass website appears to be run by
ultra-"conservatives", yes - more "conservative" than the SSPX. In fact,
they appear to be an SSPX splinter group, and sede vacantists at
that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The website links to their parish - <A
href="http://www.sgg.org/" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.sgg.org/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The parish website links to a page about their
clergy - <A href="http://www.sgg.org/general-info/clergy/" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.sgg.org/general-info/clergy/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Their bishop was ordained a priest by Lefebvre,
and later left due to Lefebvre's liturgical reforms.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The page states:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#800080 size=2>As a seminarian at Ecône in autumn
1973, he had already come to the conclusion that the only logical explanation
for evil of the the New Mass and the errors of Vatican II was that Paul VI,
due to personal heresy, had lost the pontificate. Ever since, he has
steadfastly held that position regarding Paul VI and his successors, and never
once acknowledged them as popes in the Canon of his Mass.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Their articles at <A
href="http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/index.php" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/index.php</A> include
several on the heresies of Pope (they don't call him that) Benedict XVI, and a
host of other oddities, including their sede vacantist position.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Their seminary is the Most Holy Trinity Seminary
in Warren, Michigan, is sede vacantist:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT color=#800080>The Seminary professes that
Vatican II and the doctrinal, disciplinary and liturgical reforms which have
proceeded from it are substantial alterations of the Catholic Faith. It
professes that these heretical, evil, and blasphemous reforms can in no way
proceed from the Roman Catholic Church, since she is infallible in her
doctrines, her disciplines, and her liturgical worship. The Seminary therefore
professes that the members of the Novus Ordo hierarchy (including and
especially Benedict XVI), despite any and all appearances of authority, are
not true Catholic popes nor true Catholic bishops, and do not possess the
authority to rule, for they are the authors of the doctrinal, disciplinary and
liturgical abominations which have invaded our holy places. The Seminary
professes that they are false shepherds, and ought to be denounced as
such.</FONT> -- <A href="http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/aboutus.htm"
target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/aboutus.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>God bless,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stephen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rcdianne@yahoo.com href="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:rcdianne@yahoo.com">Dianne Dawson</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=apologetics@gathman.org href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org"
target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</A> ; <A
title=jmurf80@bellsouth.net href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net"
target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">Jim
Murphy</A> ; <A title=arochaallen@juno.com
href="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com">Michele Allen</A> ; <A
title=lkelly@nvrinc.com href="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com">Lynn Kelly</A> ; <A
title=nancy.penta@loudoun.gov href="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov"
target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov">Nancy
Penta</A> ; <A title=buet4u@verizon.net href="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net"
target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:buet4u@verizon.net">Carol
Beutner</A> ; <A title=maryshanno@gmail.com
href="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:maryshanno@gmail.com">Mary Sullivan</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, June 23, 2008 3:11 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Even
though the folks at <SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">Traditional Mass</SPAN>
tend to lean more toward the ultra-conservative, there is an interesting
comparison of the Pius V Mass and the John XXIII Mass at: <A
href="http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=18&catname=6"
target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=18&catname=6</A><BR><BR>Also,
there is an interesting forum discussion, "<FONT size=3>How does the EF
(1962) differ from the Mass of the 1950's?"</FONT> at: <A
href="http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=431"
target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=431</A><BR><BR>Dianne<BR>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf>Like a deer
that longs for running waters so my soul longs for
you, O God.</FONT></EM></DIV></FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">Ps
42:1</FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf
size=1></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf
size=1></FONT></EM> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR><BR>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">-----
Original Message ----<BR>From: Art Kelly <<A
href="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:arthurkelly@yahoo.com">arthurkelly@yahoo.com</A>><BR>To:
Apologetics Group <<A href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org" target=_blank
rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">apologetics@gathman.org</A>>;
Jim Murphy <<A href="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net" target=_blank
rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:jmurf80@bellsouth.net">jmurf80@bellsouth.net</A>>;
Michele Allen <<A href="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:arochaallen@juno.com">arochaallen@juno.com</A>>; Lynn
Kelly <<A href="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:lkelly@nvrinc.com">lkelly@nvrinc.com</A>>; Nancy Penta
<<A href="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:nancy.penta@loudoun.gov">nancy.penta@loudoun.gov</A>>;
Carol Beutner <buet4u@verizon.net>; Mary Sullivan
<maryshanno@gmail.com><BR>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 11:52:44
PM<BR>Subject: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?<BR><BR>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit"
vAlign=top>
<P><STRONG><FONT size=4>Latin Days Are Here Again?</FONT></STRONG></P>
<P> </P>
<P>In <EM>Newsweek</EM>, George Weigel writes in part:<BR></P>
<P>It was to accelerate that "reform of the reform" that Benedict XVI
issued a decree last summer permitting the widespread use of the 1962
Roman rite, known technically as the Missal of <A class=related
title="Pope John XXIII"
href="http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Pope+John+XXIII"
target=_blank rel=nofollow>John XXIII</A>. Amidst the recent, fevered
speculations that Latin days are here again, it's important to note
what the Missal of John XXIII is <EM>not</EM>. It is not the
"Tridentine Rite," because it includes modifications of the missal
mandated by the Council of Trent in the 16th century; it is not the
"mass of Pius V," which some Catholic megatraditionalists argue is the
only valid form of Catholic worship. It is, in fact, the mass as
celebrated every day at every session of the Second Vatican
Council.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>The full article is at</P>
<P><A href="http://www.newsweek.com/id/142217" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.newsweek.com/id/142217</A></P>
<P> </P>
<P><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3>Art</FONT></STRONG></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>