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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks ... that clears it up. For me,
anyway. What the truth is will likely always be uncertain, but it's
probably something that will be decided by whether or not he becomes president,
rather than deciding whether or not he becomes president, i.e. setting a
precident, even if it's not formally codifed. If he becomes president,
which is most likely, nobody will, in 10 years time, overturn any treaties or
laws or judicial appointments he made (unless the USA changes
radically.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's not like Clinton's impeachment which was a
real possibility at some point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>At least that's how I now understand
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>God bless,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stephen</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=stuart@bmsi.com href="mailto:stuart@bmsi.com">Stuart D. Gathman</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=skorsman@theotokos.co.za
href="mailto:skorsman@theotokos.co.za">Stephen Korsman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=apologetics@gathman.org
href="mailto:apologetics@gathman.org">Apologetics Group</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:23
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Apologetics] Is Obama
Constitutionally Qualified to Be President?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>On Tue, 2 Dec 2008, Stephen Korsman wrote:<BR><BR>> To what
extent is this a real problem? To what extent should us<BR>>
non-Americans consider this sort of thing to be real news, or extreme
fringe<BR>> activity that comes from conspiracy theorists who wear tin foil
beanies?<BR><BR>It's a very real issue, but much more complicated that
rightwing nuts make out.<BR><BR>> o You have posted on the Internet an
unsigned, forged and thoroughly<BR>> discredited, computer-generated birth
form created in 2007, a form that<BR>> lacks vital information found on any
original, hand signed Certificate of<BR>> Live Birth, such as hospital
address, signature of attending physician and<BR>> age of
mother.<BR><BR>There was a fake photoshopped "certificate" posted from Sep 07
to Sep 08. In<BR>Oct 08, when all the blogs were abuzz with discussion
about the fake image,<BR>and even the Marxists were beginning to doubt, they
added a real image of a<BR>Certificate of Live Birth. This seems to have
been a calculated attempt to<BR>make conservatives look like idiots to their
fan base. I have a copy of<BR>the fake image if you are
interested.<BR><BR>> o Hawaii Dept of Health will not confirm your
assertion that you were born<BR>> in Hawaii.<BR><BR>The Certificate of Live
Birth means that a live newborn was presented, not<BR>that the infant was
actually born in the hospital. It could have been<BR>born in the car on
the way, or as alleged in the case of Obama, in Kenya a<BR>few days earlier,
due to the airline not allowing mothers about to give birth<BR>to
board.<BR><BR>> o Legal affidavits state you were born in
Kenya.<BR><BR>Statements from witnesses in Kenya.<BR><BR>> o Your
grandmother is recorded on tape saying she attended your birth in<BR>>
Kenya.<BR><BR>Ditto.<BR><BR>> o U.S. Law in effect in 1961 denied U.S.
citizenship to any child born in<BR>> Kenya if the father was Kenyan and
the mother was not yet 19 years of age.<BR><BR>Ask a lawyer.<BR><BR>> o In
1965, your mother legally relinquished whatever Kenyan or U.S.<BR>>
citizenship she and you had by marrying an Indonesian and becoming a<BR>>
naturalized Indonesian citizen.<BR><BR>True, but since Obama was a minor, he
could have renewed his Natural<BR>Born Citizen status (if any) after age 18
and before age 21. He has<BR>not presented evidence of having done so,
and is documented as having<BR>travelled on an Indonesian passport at age
20.<BR><BR>The Constitution requires the president to be a "natural born
citizen",<BR>but does not define the term - leaving the definition to the
states.<BR>Slave states, for instance, did not consider you a natural born
citizen<BR>regardless of where you were born if your skin color was
black.<BR><BR>The 14th ammendment (the anti-slavery one) gives congress the
power to define<BR>"natural born citizen" (taking that away from the
states). The definition<BR>changes every so often, and they are all
convoluted, so a real lawyer is needed<BR>to decipher borderline cases like
Obama and McCain. Several previous<BR>presidents had questionable
qualifications, and lawsuits challenging<BR>qualification of candidates have
been brought before. None have ever<BR>succeeded.<BR><BR>McCain *did*
present certified copies of all his documents prior to accepting<BR>the
candidacy (he was born on a military base in Panama to two US
citizens,<BR>which by unanimous declaration of the lawyers in the US Senate
was "natural<BR>born" according to Federal law at the time). Hilary and
the other candidates<BR>are also legal. Obama has never submitted proof
of qualification. Lawsuits<BR>have been brought from Hilary supporters
and Republicans in 31 states beginning<BR>in Sep 07. Most have been
dismissed due to "lack of standing" of the<BR>plaintiffs. Those bringing
the suits are getting riled up wondering who *does*<BR>have standing to bring
such a suit?<BR><BR>The SCOTUS will "consider" the problem before the
Electoral College meets.<BR>This means a private meeting to discuss the merits
of the case. I consider <BR>it unlikely that they will rule against
Obama or even take the case <BR>because of the "racism" charge the MSM has
been pushing. There would<BR>be rioting like in the 60s.<BR><BR>Much of
the documentation can be found online for the Berg lawsuit (a <BR>Hilary
supporter) brought in Pennsylvania in August 2008, just before
the<BR>primary. (Dismissed for "lack of standing".)<BR><BR>--
<BR> Stuart D. Gathman <<A
href="mailto:stuart@bmsi.com">stuart@bmsi.com</A>><BR>
Business Management Systems Inc. Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703
591-6154<BR>"Confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus addictis" - background
song for<BR>a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?"
commercial.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>