<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Here's a good article: <a href="http://www.soladeiverbum.com/massmain.shtml">http://www.soladeiverbum.com/massmain.shtml</a>, titled:</span></div><div><span><span style="color: rgb(128, 8, 35); font-size: 24pt;">The Mass is a Propitiatory
Sacrifice</span></span></div><div><span><span style="color: rgb(128, 8, 35); font-size: 24pt;"><font color="#000000" size="3">Dianne</font></span></span></div><div></div><div> </div><div><div><div><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="tahoma, 'new york', times, serif"><span style="line-height: 24px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="Apple-style-span"><i>The smallest drop of the Most Precious Blood of our Saviour and God, Our Lord Christ Jesus, is greater in dignity than the cosmos and every human and angelic soul ever created by Him. (Fr. Z)</i></span></font></div><div><i><font color="#0000bf" size="1" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></i> </div><div><i><font color="#0000bf" size="1" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></i> </div></div></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: tahoma, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font
size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Stuart Gathman <stuart@gathman.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Apologetics Group <apologetics@gathman.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, February 6, 2012 11:07 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Apologetics] Bob Sungenis cited as Catholic authority<br> </font> </div> <br>
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http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/roman_catholic_salvation.htm<br>
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What do you all think of the quote from Sungenis?<br>
<br>
Do any of you remember the day I got banned from Sungenis seminars?
I have reconstructed my question.<br>
<br>
I opened up my bible to Hebrews to jog my memory, and this is the
question (while Bob was teaching on Hebrews 9):<br>
<br>
Hebrews 9:24-28<br>
<blockquote><span style="font:/normal none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">For Christ is not
entered into the holy places made with hands,<span class="yiv1312440680Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: none; font-size: medium; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">which are</i><span style="font:/normal none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="yiv1312440680Apple-converted-space"> </span>the figures of the true;
but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for
us:</span><span style="font:/normal none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="yiv1312440680Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nor yet that he should
offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy
place every year with blood of others; <span class="yiv1312440680Apple-converted-space"></span></span><span style="font:/normal none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">For then must he
often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now
once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by
the sacrifice of himself.</span><span style="font:/normal none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after
this the judgement: </span><span style="font:/normal none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="yiv1312440680Apple-converted-space"></span>So Christ was once
offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for
him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.<br>
</span></blockquote>
How is Christ offered as a sacrifice daily (or continuously as Bob
was emphasizing in light of world time zones and a global Church) in
the Mass, when Hebrews says he does *not* offer himself often?<br>
<br>
This has a standard answer in the Catechism in <a href="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1545.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">paragraph 1545</a>,
<br>
<blockquote>The redemptive sacrifice of Christ is unique,
accomplished once for all; yet it is <b><i>made present</i></b>
in the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Church. The same is true of
the one priesthood of Christ; it is made present through the
ministerial priesthood without diminishing the uniqueness of
Christ's priesthood: "Only Christ is the true priest, the others
being only his ministers" [emphasis mine]<br>
</blockquote>
Furthermore, Bob was drawing an analogy of the continuous offering
of the Mass around the world to eternity. And other <a href="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/REALLYSC.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Catholic
writers have emphasized</a> the fact that all of our time is the
"present" to God. So it seemed like the perfect softball question,
leading in to a discussion of how the Mass connects time with
eternity.<br>
<br>
So why did this get Bob off track? I see now that this is a <a href="http://dokimos.org/catholic/page38.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">popular attack</a>
from anti-catholic writers, and he didn't seem to be familiar with
the catechism answer (unlike Protestant Catechisms, the current
Catholic one has 2865 paragraphs!), so he felt as if I'd undermined
his entire lecture, and started trying to come up with some sort of
answer off the cuff (still trying to remember what his answer was).<br>
<br>
Does anyone remember what Bob's answer was?<br>
</div>
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