[Apologetics] Re: Re: Three Anti-Social Doctrines of Luther

[Art Kelly]

Stuart,

It is axiomatic that someone who commits 1,000 mortal
sins a day CANNOT possibly have repented with the
requisite firm purpose of amendment!

I don't believe you can squirm out of Luther's
meaning: It is OK to commit all the UNrepentant mortal
sins you want. Through "faith," no obedience to the
Commandments or love of neighbor is necessary.

If my interpretation is wrong--and I think you know
very well that it is essentially correct--then please
produce some evidence that Luther understood that love
of neighor and acts of charity are an absolutely
immutable part of "faith."

No one can possibly deny that Jesus was VERY specific.
You MUST do these things as part of "faith." If Luther
agreed with Jesus, then it should be possible to cite
something he wrote that is in this ballpark.

On the contrary, Luther wanted to de-canonize the
Epistle of St. James because it is explicit that
"faith without works is dead." That concept was
completely contrary to Luther's theology.

However, let me emphasize I have no desire to beat up
on Martin Luther. Catholics and Lutherans have now
reached a joint accord on justification, so I'd just
like to "let sleeping dogs lie." 

I don't know why the author of the article felt a need
to dredge up these wierd things Luther wrote once upon
a time. What could possibly be gained by doing that?

Art

--- "Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Art Kelly wrote:
> 
> > Tell me again what Luther meant when he said that,
> if
> > he had "faith" (no matter how defined), he could
> > commit fornication and murder 1,000 times a day
> and
> > not lose his salvation.
> 
> Perhaps it would help if translated to Catholic
> speak:
> 
> "If you sincerely repent, believing that God rewards
> those
> who earnestly seek Him, and strive to show the
> sincerity
> of your repentance by acts of contrition and
> restitution where
> possible, you can be forgiven no matter how many
> fornications, murders,
> and other mortal sins you have committed."
> 
> There is lot wrapped up in the Protestant concept of
> "saving faith".
> A shorter Catholic equivalent might be "faith, hope,
> and love".
> 
> The Bible uses the Catholic sense of "faith" in
> James when it says,
> "You believe that there is one God: you do well. 
> The demons also
> believe and tremble."  It uses the Protestant sense
> when it says,
> "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be
> saved."  It
> uses the Catholic sense of works in James when it
> says, "faith without
> works is dead."  It uses the Protestant sense when
> it says, "For by Grace are
> you saved, through faith, not of works, lest any man
> should boast."
> 
> Perhaps substituting "living faith" for "faith" and
> "dead works" for "works"
> when reading Luther and other Protestants will help
> Catholics grasp
> what is being said without being too wordy.
> 
> > What religious denominations generally hold that
> view?
> > Do ELCA or LCMS Lutherans? Other mainstream
> > Protestants? Southern Baptists? Other
> fundamentalists?
> > 
> > I'd defintely like to know, because I find that
> view
> > contrary to almost every word in the Bible.
> 
> "I have come not to call the righteous, but sinners
> to repentance."
> 
> It is Catholic doctrine, and the doctrine of every
> Orthodox
> Protestant denomination.  It is only contrary to
> Scripture when
> a Catholic mind understands "faith" as mere
> "intellectual ascent".
> 
> -- 
> 	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
>     Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703
> 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
> "Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" -
> background song for
> a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from
> here?" commercial.
> 
> 


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