[Apologetics] RE: Birth Control Polls?

Wed Oct 27 17:48:01 EDT 2004

Jim,

When you get back from vacation, enlighten me about:
ERROL P. DUKE
Elizabeth East, SA

Is this the source of your information?

Art

--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80 at msn.com> wrote:

---------------------------------

Hi Art,

This was the second hit on a google search.  Looks
like things are getting better (NOT)!  I think the
good Pastor Luther is going to have full bus loads if
we start excom. folks.  Talk to you when I get back
from FLA.

jim

The following results from a survey of Catholics by
The Washington Post (October 2003) were noted during a
program on EWTN earlier this year. They underline the
fact that the views of Catholics as a whole on moral
questions differ little from the rest of the
population, e.g., percentages in favour of:

* Birth control (contraception): Catholics 88 percent;
General 94 percent.

* Abortion (where there is no danger to the mother's
health): Catholics 30 percent; General 39 percent.

* Pre-marital sex: Catholics 60 percent; General 67
percent.

* Homosexual relations: Catholics 48 percent; General
45 percent.

ERROL P. DUKE
Elizabeth East, SA

Reprinted from AD2000 Vol 17 No 5 (June 2004), p. 15

>From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly at yahoo.com> 
>To: apologetics at gathman.org 
>Subject: [Apologetics] RE: Birth Control Polls? 
>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:10:19 -0700 (PDT) 
> 
>Jim, 
> 
>You meant this humorously, so I won't hold you to it.

> 
>However, if anyone seriously argued that only 7% of 
>Catholics support the Church's doctrine against 
>artificial birth control, I'd make them produce the 
>evidence of this dubious statement. 
> 
>He who asserts must prove. 
> 
>Art 
> 
>--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80 at msn.com> wrote: 
> 
> 
>--------------------------------- 
> 
>Polls have been done over and over and I've never
seen 
>one even scare 10%.  I would guess that if you do a 
>google search you can find one. 
> 
>Jim 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly at yahoo.com> 
> >To: Apologetics Group <apologetics at gathman.org> 
> >Subject: RE: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry 
>Excommunication Thing 
> >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:30:19 -0700 (PDT) 
> > 
> >Jim, 
> > 
> >Your satire makes an interesting point. 
> > 
> >While there is a diffeence between what someone
does 
> >privately and what somenone does openly and
publicly 
> >to dissent from official church teaching, your
humor 
> >is nevertheless very well done. 
> > 
> >Oh, where did you get the 4% to 7%? How would
anyone 
> >know such a thing? 
> > 
> >Art 
> > 
> >--- Jim Murphy <jmurf80 at msn.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> >--------------------------------- 
> > 
> >Hello to all you Catholics 
> > 
> >My name is the Rev. Calvin Luther of "Let's Not
Pray 
> >to Mary Baptist Church."  I have noticed that you 
> >Catholics are mighty inconsistent when It comes to 
> >excommunicating members of your church.  I'd like
to 
> >help you out of this little problem.  Last time I 
> >looked only about 4-7% of your members follow the 
> >church teaching on the issue of birth control.  Why

> >not excommunicate the whole bunch.  A few Sundays 
>from 
> >now just have them all sign what you might call a 
> >doctrinal purity statement.  I'll have my church 
>buses 
> >outside all of the Parishes in my neck of the woods

> >and I'll pass the word along to other ministers 
> >throughout the country.  Just remember, "Jesus came

> >for the righteous".  Or was that for sinners?  Oh 
>heck 
> >I can't remember. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >From: Dianne Dawson <rcdianne at yahoo.com> 
> > >To: Apologetics Group <apologetics at gathman.org>, 
> >   David Mullaney <MayDay1 at aol.com>, Holly Gatling 
> ><sccl at bellsouth.net>,        Mary Ellen Jackson 
> ><maryjackson8 at bellsouth.net> 
> > >Subject: [Apologetics] About That Whole Kerry 
> >Excommunication Thing 
> > >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:21:01 -0700 (PDT) 
> > > 
> > >by Phil Lawler 
> > > 
> > >Other Articles by Phil Lawler 
> > >Contact this Author About That Whole Kerry 
> >Excommunication Thing 
> > >10/27/04 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  Is Kerry excommunicated or not? If you have
been 
> >following this, your head may be spinning by now
from 
> 
> >all the charges, denials and counter-charges. 
> > > 
> > >The story that caused all the excitement was 
>reported 
> >in an interview on the October 15, 2004 edition of 
> >EWTN’s the World Over Live with Raymond Arroyo and 
>was 
> >immediately reported online by a CWN (Catholic
World 
> >News) headline claiming that John Kerry had
incurred 
> >the penalty of excommunication because of his 
> >continued public support for abortion and
euthanasia, 
> 
> >in defiance of Church teaching. 
> > > 
> > >At the center of the swirling controversy is Marc

> >Balestrieri, a California canon lawyer, who has 
> >brought a canonical suit against Kerry (and
others), 
> >citing his flagrant dissent from Church teachings
on 
> >the dignity of life. This summer he visited Rome
and 
> >spoke to officials at the Congregation for the 
> >Doctrine of the Faith, asking them whether public 
> >support for abortion could be considered heresy,
and 
> >thus grounds for excommunication. On October 15th,
he 
> 
> >announced that he had received an affirmative
answer. 
> 
> > > 
> > >Balestrieri's announcement drew a firestorm of 
> >criticism. Vatican officials insisted that the 
>opinion 
> >Balestrieri was citing — a 4-page letter from
Father 
> >Basil Cole, OP, a respected American theologian —
was 
> 
> >not an official response from the Vatican, nor an 
> >authoritative statement of Church policy. 
> > > 
> > >That is true. But even if Father Cole's letter
only 
> 
> >expressed his own opinion, it is an opinion worthy
of 
> 
> >consideration. Marc Balestrieri asked a question,
and 
> 
> >he received an answer. The answer wasn't
"official," 
> >and it didn't come from the Vatican. But it still
was 
> 
> >an answer. And in the absence of any official 
>response 
> >from Rome, it was the best answer available! 
> > > 
> > >Although several other media outlets have claimed

> >that the Vatican has rejected the notion that Kerry

>is 
> >subject to excommunication, as I see it, those
other 
> >outlets have the story wrong. 
> > > 
> > >Let me explain: 
> > > 
> > >The Vatican has not said that Father Cole's
opinion 
> 
> >is in error — only that it is not authoritative. 
> >(Technically speaking, the Vatican has said nothing

>at 
> >all. There have been a few public comments by 
> >individuals working in the Roman Curia, but no 
> >"official" statement whatsoever on this topic.) 
>Father 
> >Cole's judgment remains, at the least, a very 
> >defensible position. One Catholic news agency
quoted 
> >an unnamed Vatican official as saying that Kerry is

> >not a heretic. But an offhand quote from an
anonymous 
> 
> >source is surely no more "official," and no more 
> >persuasive, than a reasoned argument by a respected

> >scholar. And keep in mind that Father Cole's letter

>to 
> >Balestrieri was written at the request of a
prominent 
> 
> >Vatican official, who presumably had a rough idea
of 
> >what his fellow Dominican would say. 
> > > 
> > >Maybe Marc Balestrieri misled Vatican officials 
>about 
> >the purpose of his questions, as one of the Vatican

> >officials implied. He insists that he did not, and 
>has 
> >issued a statement rebutting the charges against
him 
> >as well as offered documentary proof on his
website. 
> >Probably he pressed his argument too far, by
applying 
> 
> >the logic of Father Cole's letter to the particular

> >case of John Kerry. Very likely he undermined his
own 
> 
> >canonical case by generating premature publicity. 
> > > 
> > >Nevertheless, give Marc Balestrieri credit for
this 
> 
> >much: He asked a very provocative question: Is a 
> >Catholic politician like John Kerry subject to the 
> >penalty of excommunication? 
> > > 
> > >The answer he received was unofficial. The answer

>was 
> >unauthoritative. The answer was debatable. But the 
> >answer was Yes. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >Phil Lawler is editor of the online service 
>Catholic 
> >World News. This article is adapted from the CWN 
> >Weekly News Summary, and is used with permission of

> >the author. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >Like a deer that longs for running waters so my 
>soul 
> >longs for you, O God. 
> > > 
> > >Ps 42:1 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >--------------------------------- 
> > >Do you Yahoo!? 
> > >Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We 
> >finish. 
> > 
>
>_______________________________________________Apologetics

> 
> >mailing 
>
>listApologetics at gathman.orghttp://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics

> 
> > 
> > 
> >===== 
> >ART KELLY, ATM-S 
> >13524 Brightfield Lane 
> >Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360 
> >(703) 904-3763 home 
> >arthurkelly at yahoo.com 
> >art.kelly at cox.net 
> >akelly at americantarget.com 
> >ArtK135 at Netscape.net 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>===== 
>ART KELLY, ATM-S 
>13524 Brightfield Lane 
>Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360 
>(703) 904-3763 home 
>arthurkelly at yahoo.com 
>art.kelly at cox.net 
>akelly at americantarget.com 
>ArtK135 at Netscape.net 
> 
> 
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=====
ART KELLY, ATM-S
13524 Brightfield Lane 
Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360 
(703) 904-3763 home 
arthurkelly at yahoo.com
art.kelly at cox.net
akelly at americantarget.com
ArtK135 at Netscape.net