[Apologetics] Yes, we can eat meat this Friday.

Sun Mar 27 23:51:35 EDT 2011

Diane,

Did you actually READ the article on Lent in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia to which you linked?

Your statements are way, way, way out of sync with what that article actually says.

Furthermore, your claim that my "statements are NOT in keeping with the mind of the Church - even as far back as the time of the Apostles" is SPECIFICALLY refuted by the article.

"The passage of primary importance is one quoted by Eusebius (Church History V.24) from a letter of St. Irenaeus to Pope Victor in connection with the Easter controversy...He also urges that this variety of usage is of ancient date, which implies that there could have been NO APOSTOLIC TRADITION on the subject...And there is the same silence observable in all the pre-Nicene Fathers, though many had occasion to mention such an Apostolic institution if it had existed."

The article deals almost entirely with strict FASTING during Lent.  In fact, the word "fast" or "fasting" occurs 47 times in the article.  Here are some more excerpts from the article:

"For example, the historian Socrates (Church History V.22) tells of the practice of the fifth century: 'Some abstain from every sort of creature that has life, while others of all the living creatures eat of fish only. Others eat birds as well as fish, because, according to the Mosaic account of the Creation, they too sprang from the water; others abstain from fruit covered by a hard shell and from eggs. Some eat dry bread only, others not even that; others again when they have fasted to the ninth hour (three o'clock) partake of various kinds of food'. Amid this diversity some inclined to the extreme limits of rigor. Epiphanius, Palladius, and the author of the Life of St. Melania the Younger seem to contemplate a state of things in which ordinary Christians were expected to pass twenty-four hours or more without food of any kind, especially during Holy Week, while the more austere actually subsisted during part or the whole of Lent upon one or two meals
 a week (see Rampolla, Vita di. S. Melania Giuniore, appendix xxv, p. 478). But the ordinary rule on fasting days was to take but one meal a day and that only in the evening, while meat and, in the early centuries, wine were entirely forbidden. During Holy Week, or at least on Good Friday it was common to enjoin the xerophagiæ, i.e., a diet of dry food, bread, salt, and vegetables. 

"There does not seem at the beginning to have been any prohibition of lacticinia, as the passage just quoted from Socrates would show. Moreover, at a somewhat later date, Bede tells us of Bishop Cedda, that during Lent he took only one meal a day consisting of "a little bread, a hen's egg, and a little milk mixed with water" (Church History III.23), while Theodulphus of Orleans in the eighth century regarded abstinence from eggs, cheese, and fish as a mark of exceptional virtue. None the less St. Gregory writing to St. Augustine of England laid down the rule, 'We abstain from flesh meat, and from all things that come from flesh, as milk, cheese, and eggs'."

(NOTE:  Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary at http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=34465
defines lacticinia:  Milk (Latin, lac) and milk products, e.g., butter and cheese, and eggs or animal products formerly prohibited during Lent, along with flesh meat. In the early Middle Ages lacticinia were forbidden EVEN ON SUNDAYS during the Lenten season.) 

Continuing to quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia on Lent:

"From what has been said it will be clear that in the early Middle Ages Lent throughout the greater part of the Western Church consisted of forty weekdays, which were all fast days, AND SIX SUNDAYS.  From the beginning to the end of that time all flesh meat, and also, for the most part, "lacticinia", were forbidden EVEN ON SUNDAYS, while on all the fasting days only one meal was taken, which single meal was not permitted before evening...

"Other mitigations of an even more substantial character have been introduced into lenten observance in the course of the last few centuries. To begin with, the custom has been tolerated of taking a cup of liquid (e.g., tea or coffee, or even chocolate) with a fragment of bread or toast in the early morning. But, what more particularly regards Lent, successive indults have been granted by the Holy See allowing meat at the principal meal, first on Sundays, and then on two, three, four, and five weekdays, throughout nearly the whole of Lent. Quite recently, Maundy Thursday, upon which meat was hitherto always forbidden, has come to share in the same indulgence. In the United States, the Holy See grants faculties whereby working men and their families may use flesh meat once a day throughout the year, EXCEPT FRIDAYS, Ash Wednesday, Holy Saturday, and the vigil of Christmas. The only compensation imposed for all these mitigations is the prohibition during
 Lent against partaking of both fish and flesh at the same repast."

As you can see, Lent in the 21st Century has very little resemblance to the VERY strict fasting in many previous centuries.  So, your attempt to claim that my "statements are NOT in keeping with the mind of the Church" is without merit.

As for "a sense of legalism," it is you who have adopted a legal attitude towards Lent. While it is currenty "legal" to eat meat on the Annunciation, it is contrary to the the whole purpose of Lent, which is sacrifice and penance.

Giving up something (candy, alcohol, watching TV, whatever)--a far cry from the strict fasts of earlier centuries!--is extremely easy for only 6 days at a time if Sunday is not counted as Lent.  It can be very hard if it is done continuously from Ash Wednesday to Easter Sunday.

The Church used to probibit eating meat on every Friday during the year.  But for the small vestige of this discipline that still exists in Lent, it is absurd to water it down even more through exceptions for the Annunciation, St. Patrick's Day, and St. Joseph's Day.

While I'm not advocating the re-instatement of strict fasts in Lent that existed throughout Catholic history, I think those who gobbled down a big steak or a bucket of KFC last Friday were on the exact opposite side the Church's long-standing traditions during Lent.

Art
--- On Sun, 3/27/11, Dianne Dawson <rcdianne at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Dianne Dawson <rcdianne at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Apologetics] Yes, we can eat meat this Friday.
To: "Art Kelly" <arthurkelly at yahoo.com>, "Apologetics Group" <apologetics at gathman.org>
Cc: "Father Hathaway" <frehathaway at stveronica.net>, "Amy Earline Kelly" <AKelly421 at aol.com>, "Father Peffley" <fpeffley at juno.com>, "Jimmy Murphy" <jmurf80 at gmail.com>, "Father Phillips" <frphillips at atonementonline.com>, "Alice Sasscer" <aksasscer at aol.com>, "Dave Armstrong" <apologistdave at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 2:14 PM

Art,

While I respect your opinion when it comes to your personal Lenten practices, your statements are NOT in keeping with the mind of the Church - even as far back as the time of the Apostles, St. Thomas Aquinas, or other Church Fathers (cf. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09152a.htm).  The reason we abstain from meat on Fridays is not out of a sense of legalism but because Fridays, normally, are days of sorrow in remembrance of our Lord's death.  During Jesus' time meat was only served at festivals and other celebrations due to its expense.  However, Sundays and Solemnities in honor of our Lord or Blessed Mother are days of great joy and feasting.  As such it would not be proper to abstain from meat, for sacrificial reasons.  If you just wanted to not eat meat then that's something different altogether.

We also have to beware of developing a sense of legalism, which is something Jesus' specifically spoke against.

Dianne

Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul longs for you, O God.
Ps 42:1

From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly at yahoo.com>
To: Apologetics Group <apologetics at gathman.org>
Cc: Father Hathaway <frehathaway at stveronica.net>; Amy Earline Kelly <AKelly421 at aol.com>; Father Peffley <fpeffley at juno.com>; Jimmy Murphy <jmurf80 at gmail.com>; Father Phillips <frphillips at atonementonline.com>; Alice Sasscer <aksasscer at aol.com>; Dave Armstrong <apologistdave at gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 7:08:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Apologetics] Yes, we can eat meat this Friday.

No one who is sincere about observing Lent should eat meat on Friday!

Likewise, the belief of some that every Sunday in Lent dispenses them from whatever they are giving up misses the entire point of Lent!

ANYONE can give up something for six days.  That's not a genuine sacrifice!  

Only when someone gives up something he or she really likes all the way from Ash Wednesday to Easter Sunday does a real sacrifice occur.

So, this Friday and every Friday in Lent, DON'T eat meat!  (That holds true whenever St. Patrick's Day or St. Joseph's Day falls on a Friday too.)

And whatever you've given up for Lent, continue to give it up until Easter.

Art

--- On Thu, 3/24/11, Dianne Dawson <rcdianne at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Dianne Dawson <rcdianne at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Apologetics] Yes, we can eat meat this Friday.
To: "Apologetics Group" <apologetics at gathman.org>
Date: Thursday, March 24, 2011, 4:31 PM

Eating meat: permitted on the Annunciation
Citing Canon 1251, various dioceses, Catholic bloggers, and even secular newspapers are noting that the obligation to abstain from meat is abrogated on Friday, March 25, because it is the Solemnity of the Annunciation. 
Source(s): these links will take you to other sites, in a new window.
It’s ok to eat meat this Friday. Really! (Omaha World-Herald) 
Saint Albert the Great Offers Place of Worship and Fellowship (Not to Mention Fish Fry) (Baldwin-Whitehall Patch) 
Archdiocese issues Lenten regulations (St. Louis Review) 
Liturgical Advisories (Diocese of Pueblo) 
Archdiocese of Washington: comments (Facebook) 
Solemnity of the Annunciation of the Lord (Diocese of Des Moines)Happy Meat-Eating Friday! (2011 Edition) (JimmyAkin.org) 

Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul longs for you, O God.
Ps 42:1

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