No subject

Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services,
Fourth Edition
 http://www.usccb.org/bishops/directives.htm

Some state Catholic conferences, individual bishops, and the USCCB Committee on Pro-Life Activities (formerly an NCCB committee) have addressed the moral issues concerning medically assisted hydration and nutrition. The bishops are guided by the Church's teaching forbidding euthanasia, which is "an action or an omission which of itself or by intention causes death, in order that all suffering may in this way be eliminated."38 These statements agree that hydration and nutrition are not morally obligatory either when they bring no comfort to a person who is imminently dying or when they cannot be assimilated by a person's body. The USCCB Committee on Pro-Life Activities' report, in addition, points out the necessary distinctions between questions already resolved by the magisterium and those requiring further reflection, as, for example, the morality of withdrawing medically assisted hydration and nutrition from a person who is in the condition that is recognized by physicians as the
 "persistent vegetative state" (PVS).39

Directives
58.    There should be a presumption in favor of providing nutrition and hydration to all patients, including patients who require medically assisted nutrition and hydration, as long as this is of sufficient benefit to outweigh the burdens involved to the patient.


Dianne

 



Art Kelly <arthurkelly at yahoo.com> wrote:

Stuart,

Thank you for your outstanding timeline and for your
excellent discussion regarding the Catholic position
on withholding food and water.

While you are not Catholic, you have correctly
explained the Catholic doctrine that, regardless of
whether Terri is PVS or MCS, witholding food and water
from her is a very grave sin!!!

To the extent that her mental condition makes a
difference to other religions shows the primacy of the
Catholic dogma on life compared to the watered down
views of some Protestants.

I don't know what the state laws are in Virginia and
Texas, but I will talk to the legislators I know in
both states. 

This must be spelled out in law or, better yet, the
state constitutions: No one can ever be starved to
death! 

No one!!! Not ever!!!

I will also contact my U.S. Congressman and U.S.
Senators to do likewise.

I strongly urge everyone to do this.

Art

--- "Stuart D. Gathman" wrote:

> 
> I have tried to create a timeline of Terris
> struggle. Please correct with 
> any errors. This is way too late to help Terri, but
> at least it could 
> help after she is dead by
> 
> o warning that bulimia is a dangerous behaviour
> o showing the need to protect the severely disabled
> from those who would
> kill them, Terri is not the only one.
> 
> The Catholic position seems to be that removing food
> and water is murder even
> for true PVS. Removing artificial life support in
> the case of full brain
> death is permitted, but food and water are not
> artificial life support. 
> That is why the Pope can annouce that withholding
> Terri's food and water
> is a grave sin (i.e. a mortal sin when committed
> with full knowlege),
> without having to establish whether she is PVS or
> MCS.
> 
> However, the distinction between PVS and MCS is
> important for non-Catholics,
> especially non-Christians, and Catholics should give
> it some attention. 
> Distinguishing MCS from PVS is an Intelligent Design
> question. Was
> that eye blink a random signal from the lower brain,
> or an intelligent
> choice? When there is 2 way communication, no
> matter how restricted, properly
> designed tests with specific requests and response
> can make this distinction to
> any desired degree of certainty.
> 
> This is the time line I have pieced together:
> 
> YEAR 0
> 15 years ago, Michael and Terri were in trouble. 
> Michael was seeing
> another woman. Terri was bulimic. One day she
> collapsed in the bathroom
> with a heart attack caused by potassium imbalance
> while "purging" after a
> meal. This is a common cause of death with bulimia.
> Apparently, she also
> choked, explaining the bruises on her neck. (Some
> have suspected Michael 
> of foul play, i.e. strangling, but I think this is
> due to demonization 
> rather than the evidence.) Prolonged lack of oxygen
> to the brain resulted 
> in extensive brain damage.
> 
> For three years, Michael and Terri's family were
> allies. Both believed at
> the time that Terri was in a PVS (Permanent
> Vegetative State), and brain
> scans confirmed this. But they continued to care
> for her according to
> Catholic belief (which forbids withholding ordinary
> care from anyone not
> on artificial life support) while they sued for
> malpractice. However, as
> soon as Michael was awarded the money for Terri's
> long term therapy and
> care as her legal guardian, he put her cats to
> sleep, melted down her
> rings, and refused to allow any further therapy.
> 
> YEAR 3 In those three years, however, Terri had made
> remarkable progress. 
> Her parents, and neurologists who examined her
> personally, saw intelligent
> choice, and an ability to see and hear behind her
> responses: opening and
> closing her eyes on request, speaking a few simple
> words, tracking objects
> mentioned verbally with her eyes. Neurologists who
> initially agreed with
> the PVS diagnosis after seeing the brain scans taken
> after her collapse,
> changed their mind after meeting her in person.
> 
> Michael was not happy with this turn of events, and
> refused to allow any
> further therapy or tests. Although Terri was now
> able to swallow liguids
> on her own, Michael ordered that she be fed only
> through a feeding tube
> and that the tube remain connected at all times
> (thus preventing her from
> speaking any more of those simple words). Terri's
> parents began demanding
> in court that Michael spend the $700000 he had been
> awarded on therapy as
> agreed. They accused Michael of just wanting the
> money. Michael obtained
> permission from the court to use the money on
> lawyers to defend himself. 
> The parents also challenged the finding of PVS in
> court. The court
> appointed 3 experts to examine Terri - two appointed
> by Michael, and none
> by her parents. Those experts confirmed the PVS
> diagnosis. Since then,
> 33 experts have signed avadavits challenging that
> finding, and claiming
> that Terri had progressed to MCS (Minimally
> Conscious State), and could
> likely improve her communication with therapy.
> 
> YEAR 7 After nearly four years of this wrangling,
> Terri had a medical
> emergency, and was admitted to the hospital with
> nearly fatal low blood
> sugar. Her nurse testified in court that she had
> found Terri emotionally
> distraught (inconsistent with PVS, by the way),
> after a closed door visit
> with Michael. Terri then fainted. The nurse found
> needle marks on her
> body, and part of the wrapper for an insulin
> cartridge. The nurse also
> testified that Michael had said to her, "Why doesn't
> the bitch die!" 
> This was not a cause for investigation, because
> Terri had already been
> found to be PVS, and because of that, Michael as her
> legal guardian had
> the legal right under Florida law to terminate her
> by any means at his
> discretion. (The insulin was certainly more humane
> than the means he is
> using now.)
> 
> Michael and Terri's parents were now bitter enemies.
> At this time,
> Michael testified for the first time in court (7
> years after her
> collapse), that Terri had once told him she would
> not want to live as a
> vegetable. Terri's parents began trying to convince
> the court that Terri
> was no long PVS, but had progressed to MCS (so that
> Michael no longer had
> the right to kill her), and that Michael had a
> conflict of interest with
> his mistress, whom he had been living with and
> fathered two children with.
> 
> For the next 8 years, they struggled. Michael
> spending down Terri's award
> money intended for her therapy on lawyers instead,
> Terri's parents
> spending their own money, supplemented by donations,
> on lawyers. During
> this time, Michael actively prevented any further
> test or therapy. On
> three occasions, Terri's feeding tube was removed,
> with Michael citing
> Terri's alleged verbal wishes, and food and water
> withheld, only to have
> the tube reinserted after a new round of appeals. 
> All this wrangling over
> the feeding tube served to give the general public
> the impression that
> Terri was dependent on the tube to survive - which
> is completely untrue. 
> She is capable of swallowing on her own, and able to
> live on a liquified
> diet just like any infant.
> 
> YEAR 13 On October 21, following the 3rd attempt at
> starvation and
> dehydration (with accompanying fanfare about
> "disconnecting tubes" to give
> the public the impression that Terri was dependent
> on some sort of machine
> for survival), after seeing videos of Terri, the
> Florida legislature said
> "that doesn't look like someone who is comatose" and
> passed "Terri's law",
> giving the governor the authority to spare the life
> of any alleged PVS
> patient about to be terminated - just as the
> Governor can pardon condemned
> criminals. Jeb Bush immediately "pardoned" Terri,
> and Michael continued 
> to petition the court to let him kill her.
> 
> YEAR 15 The Florida Supreme court declared "Terri's
> law"
> "unconstitutional". It is apparently one of those
> inalieable rights hidden
> in the penumbras of the Florida Constitution, that
> everyone not only be
> allowed to, but be guarranteed the right to kill
> those under their
> guardianship whenever a court has declared them to
> be in a PVS.
> 
> Michael's award money had been spent down to $50000
> - all on lawyers. He
> offered this as proof that he was not in it for the
> money, and pledged to give
> all that remained to charity when Terri was finally
> dead. (One wonders what
> charity: Right to Die?) Judge Greer ordered the
> feeding tube removed for the
> last time. Somehow, this order also meant that a 24
> hour police guard was
> needed to prevent anyone from giving Terri food or
> water. Dozens of people
> were arrested attempting to sneak in a drink for
> Terri, including 4 children as
> young as 10 years old.
> 
> The Florida legislature met, and passed another law
> requiring more
> scrutiny before an alleged PVS patient can be
> terminated. Judge Greer
> immediately declared it "unconstitutional", citing
> the aforementioned 
> inalienable right to kill.
> 
> Congress issued a subpeona to Michael and Terri,
> requiring them to testify
> before congress on the issue (thus delaying her
> execution). Judge Greer
> thumbed his nose and stuck out his tongue.
> 
> Congress met in an emergency session, and passed a
> law, signed by
> President Bush, giving advocates for disabled
> patients about to be
> terminated the right to appeal to the Federal
> courts. The Schindlers
> immediately appealed, and the Federal district court
> refused to hear their
> case. They appealed to the Supreme Court, and the
> Supreme Court refused
> to hear their case.
> 
> Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida announced that he had
> the authority to take 
> Terri into protective custody, and dispatched a
> National Guard unit to do 
> so. But then he changed his mind and called them
> back, saying he didn't 
> really have that authority.
> 
> Meanwhile, witnesses of the final removal of Terri's
> feeding tube 
> testified before Judge Greer that Terri had uttered
> 4 more simple words 
> after its removal: "I want to live". Lawyers for
> Michael dismissed this 
> as "unconscious groans consistent with PVS".
> 
> QUESTIONS
> 
> Who, ultimately, do the police putting Terri to
> death take orders from? 
> Are they following those orders because they believe
> Terri is actually
> PVS? Or are they just afraid of losing their jobs? 
> Or have they never 
> considered the issue? Is Terri dead yet?
> 
> CONCLUSION
> 
> Once you're labelled as PVS, you're a goner.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Stuart D. Gathman 
> Business Management Systems Inc. Phone: 703
> 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
> "Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" -
> background song for
> a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from
> here?" commercial.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Apologetics mailing list
> Apologetics at gathman.org
> http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
> 


ART KELLY, ATM-S
13524 Brightfield Lane 
Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360 
(703) 904-3763 home
arthurkelly at yahoo.com
ArtK135 at Netscape.net
art.kelly at cox.net






_______________________________________________
Apologetics mailing list
Apologetics at gathman.org
http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics



Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul longs for you, O God.

Ps 42:1
 
 



		
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>From the Cathechism of the Catholic Church: <A href="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html">http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html</A></DIV>
<DIV>
<H3>Euthanasia </H3>
<P>2276 Those whose lives are diminished or weakened deserve special respect. Sick or handicapped persons should be helped to lead lives as normal as possible. 
<P>2277 Whatever its motives and means, direct euthanasia consists in putting an end to the lives of handicapped, sick, or dying persons. <BR>It is morally unacceptable. <BR>Thus an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator. <BR>The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded. </P>
<P>-----------------------------------------------------</P>
<P>From the USCCB statement:</P>
<H2><FONT color=#cc3333 size=1>Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services,<BR>Fourth Edition</FONT></H2>
<P> <A href="http://www.usccb.org/bishops/directives.htm">http://www.usccb.org/bishops/directives.htm</A></P>
<P>Some state Catholic conferences, individual bishops, and the USCCB Committee on Pro-Life Activities (formerly an NCCB committee) have addressed the moral issues concerning medically assisted hydration and nutrition. The bishops are guided by the Church's teaching forbidding euthanasia, which is "an action or an omission which of itself or by intention causes death, in order that all suffering may in this way be eliminated."<SUP>38</SUP> These statements agree that hydration and nutrition are not morally obligatory either when they bring no comfort to a person who is imminently dying or when they cannot be assimilated by a person's body. The USCCB Committee on Pro-Life Activities' report, in addition, points out the necessary distinctions between questions already resolved by the magisterium and those requiring further reflection, as, for example, the morality of withdrawing medically assisted hydration and nutrition from a person who is in the condition that is recognized by
 physicians as the "persistent vegetative state" (PVS).<SUP>39<BR><BR></SUP><B><FONT face="" color=#cc3333>Directives</FONT></B><BR><SUP>58.    There should be a presumption in favor of providing nutrition and hydration to all patients, including patients who require medically assisted nutrition and hydration, as long as this is of sufficient benefit to outweigh the burdens involved to the patient.<BR></SUP></P>
<P>Dianne</P>
<P> </P>
<P><BR><BR><B><I>Art Kelly <arthurkelly at yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Stuart,<BR><BR>Thank you for your outstanding timeline and for your<BR>excellent discussion regarding the Catholic position<BR>on withholding food and water.<BR><BR>While you are not Catholic, you have correctly<BR>explained the Catholic doctrine that, regardless of<BR>whether Terri is PVS or MCS, witholding food and water<BR>from her is a very grave sin!!!<BR><BR>To the extent that her mental condition makes a<BR>difference to other religions shows the primacy of the<BR>Catholic dogma on life compared to the watered down<BR>views of some Protestants.<BR><BR>I don't know what the state laws are in Virginia and<BR>Texas, but I will talk to the legislators I know in<BR>both states. <BR><BR>This must be spelled out in law or, better yet, the<BR>state constitutions: No one can ever be starved to<BR>death! <BR><BR>No one!!! Not ever!!!<BR><BR>I will also contact my U.S. Congressman and
 U.S.<BR>Senators to do likewise.<BR><BR>I strongly urge everyone to do this.<BR><BR>Art<BR><BR>--- "Stuart D. Gathman" <STUART at BMSI.COM>wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR>> I have tried to create a timeline of Terris<BR>> struggle. Please correct with <BR>> any errors. This is way too late to help Terri, but<BR>> at least it could <BR>> help after she is dead by<BR>> <BR>> o warning that bulimia is a dangerous behaviour<BR>> o showing the need to protect the severely disabled<BR>> from those who would<BR>> kill them, Terri is not the only one.<BR>> <BR>> The Catholic position seems to be that removing food<BR>> and water is murder even<BR>> for true PVS. Removing artificial life support in<BR>> the case of full brain<BR>> death is permitted, but food and water are not<BR>> artificial life support. <BR>> That is why the Pope can annouce that withholding<BR>> Terri's food and water<BR>> is a grave sin (i.e. a mortal sin when
 committed<BR>> with full knowlege),<BR>> without having to establish whether she is PVS or<BR>> MCS.<BR>> <BR>> However, the distinction between PVS and MCS is<BR>> important for non-Catholics,<BR>> especially non-Christians, and Catholics should give<BR>> it some attention. <BR>> Distinguishing MCS from PVS is an Intelligent Design<BR>> question. Was<BR>> that eye blink a random signal from the lower brain,<BR>> or an intelligent<BR>> choice? When there is 2 way communication, no<BR>> matter how restricted, properly<BR>> designed tests with specific requests and response<BR>> can make this distinction to<BR>> any desired degree of certainty.<BR>> <BR>> This is the time line I have pieced together:<BR>> <BR>> YEAR 0<BR>> 15 years ago, Michael and Terri were in trouble. <BR>> Michael was seeing<BR>> another woman. Terri was bulimic. One day she<BR>> collapsed in the bathroom<BR>> with a heart attack caused
 by potassium imbalance<BR>> while "purging" after a<BR>> meal. This is a common cause of death with bulimia.<BR>> Apparently, she also<BR>> choked, explaining the bruises on her neck. (Some<BR>> have suspected Michael <BR>> of foul play, i.e. strangling, but I think this is<BR>> due to demonization <BR>> rather than the evidence.) Prolonged lack of oxygen<BR>> to the brain resulted <BR>> in extensive brain damage.<BR>> <BR>> For three years, Michael and Terri's family were<BR>> allies. Both believed at<BR>> the time that Terri was in a PVS (Permanent<BR>> Vegetative State), and brain<BR>> scans confirmed this. But they continued to care<BR>> for her according to<BR>> Catholic belief (which forbids withholding ordinary<BR>> care from anyone not<BR>> on artificial life support) while they sued for<BR>> malpractice. However, as<BR>> soon as Michael was awarded the money for Terri's<BR>> long term therapy and<BR>>
 care as her legal guardian, he put her cats to<BR>> sleep, melted down her<BR>> rings, and refused to allow any further therapy.<BR>> <BR>> YEAR 3 In those three years, however, Terri had made<BR>> remarkable progress. <BR>> Her parents, and neurologists who examined her<BR>> personally, saw intelligent<BR>> choice, and an ability to see and hear behind her<BR>> responses: opening and<BR>> closing her eyes on request, speaking a few simple<BR>> words, tracking objects<BR>> mentioned verbally with her eyes. Neurologists who<BR>> initially agreed with<BR>> the PVS diagnosis after seeing the brain scans taken<BR>> after her collapse,<BR>> changed their mind after meeting her in person.<BR>> <BR>> Michael was not happy with this turn of events, and<BR>> refused to allow any<BR>> further therapy or tests. Although Terri was now<BR>> able to swallow liguids<BR>> on her own, Michael ordered that she be fed only<BR>>
 through a feeding tube<BR>> and that the tube remain connected at all times<BR>> (thus preventing her from<BR>> speaking any more of those simple words). Terri's<BR>> parents began demanding<BR>> in court that Michael spend the $700000 he had been<BR>> awarded on therapy as<BR>> agreed. They accused Michael of just wanting the<BR>> money. Michael obtained<BR>> permission from the court to use the money on<BR>> lawyers to defend himself. <BR>> The parents also challenged the finding of PVS in<BR>> court. The court<BR>> appointed 3 experts to examine Terri - two appointed<BR>> by Michael, and none<BR>> by her parents. Those experts confirmed the PVS<BR>> diagnosis. Since then,<BR>> 33 experts have signed avadavits challenging that<BR>> finding, and claiming<BR>> that Terri had progressed to MCS (Minimally<BR>> Conscious State), and could<BR>> likely improve her communication with therapy.<BR>> <BR>> YEAR 7 After
 nearly four years of this wrangling,<BR>> Terri had a medical<BR>> emergency, and was admitted to the hospital with<BR>> nearly fatal low blood<BR>> sugar. Her nurse testified in court that she had<BR>> found Terri emotionally<BR>> distraught (inconsistent with PVS, by the way),<BR>> after a closed door visit<BR>> with Michael. Terri then fainted. The nurse found<BR>> needle marks on her<BR>> body, and part of the wrapper for an insulin<BR>> cartridge. The nurse also<BR>> testified that Michael had said to her, "Why doesn't<BR>> the bitch die!" <BR>> This was not a cause for investigation, because<BR>> Terri had already been<BR>> found to be PVS, and because of that, Michael as her<BR>> legal guardian had<BR>> the legal right under Florida law to terminate her<BR>> by any means at his<BR>> discretion. (The insulin was certainly more humane<BR>> than the means he is<BR>> using now.)<BR>> <BR>> Michael and Terri's
 parents were now bitter enemies.<BR>> At this time,<BR>> Michael testified for the first time in court (7<BR>> years after her<BR>> collapse), that Terri had once told him she would<BR>> not want to live as a<BR>> vegetable. Terri's parents began trying to convince<BR>> the court that Terri<BR>> was no long PVS, but had progressed to MCS (so that<BR>> Michael no longer had<BR>> the right to kill her), and that Michael had a<BR>> conflict of interest with<BR>> his mistress, whom he had been living with and<BR>> fathered two children with.<BR>> <BR>> For the next 8 years, they struggled. Michael<BR>> spending down Terri's award<BR>> money intended for her therapy on lawyers instead,<BR>> Terri's parents<BR>> spending their own money, supplemented by donations,<BR>> on lawyers. During<BR>> this time, Michael actively prevented any further<BR>> test or therapy. On<BR>> three occasions, Terri's feeding tube was
 removed,<BR>> with Michael citing<BR>> Terri's alleged verbal wishes, and food and water<BR>> withheld, only to have<BR>> the tube reinserted after a new round of appeals. <BR>> All this wrangling over<BR>> the feeding tube served to give the general public<BR>> the impression that<BR>> Terri was dependent on the tube to survive - which<BR>> is completely untrue. <BR>> She is capable of swallowing on her own, and able to<BR>> live on a liquified<BR>> diet just like any infant.<BR>> <BR>> YEAR 13 On October 21, following the 3rd attempt at<BR>> starvation and<BR>> dehydration (with accompanying fanfare about<BR>> "disconnecting tubes" to give<BR>> the public the impression that Terri was dependent<BR>> on some sort of machine<BR>> for survival), after seeing videos of Terri, the<BR>> Florida legislature said<BR>> "that doesn't look like someone who is comatose" and<BR>> passed "Terri's law",<BR>> giving the
 governor the authority to spare the life<BR>> of any alleged PVS<BR>> patient about to be terminated - just as the<BR>> Governor can pardon condemned<BR>> criminals. Jeb Bush immediately "pardoned" Terri,<BR>> and Michael continued <BR>> to petition the court to let him kill her.<BR>> <BR>> YEAR 15 The Florida Supreme court declared "Terri's<BR>> law"<BR>> "unconstitutional". It is apparently one of those<BR>> inalieable rights hidden<BR>> in the penumbras of the Florida Constitution, that<BR>> everyone not only be<BR>> allowed to, but be guarranteed the right to kill<BR>> those under their<BR>> guardianship whenever a court has declared them to<BR>> be in a PVS.<BR>> <BR>> Michael's award money had been spent down to $50000<BR>> - all on lawyers. He<BR>> offered this as proof that he was not in it for the<BR>> money, and pledged to give<BR>> all that remained to charity when Terri was finally<BR>> dead. (One
 wonders what<BR>> charity: Right to Die?) Judge Greer ordered the<BR>> feeding tube removed for the<BR>> last time. Somehow, this order also meant that a 24<BR>> hour police guard was<BR>> needed to prevent anyone from giving Terri food or<BR>> water. Dozens of people<BR>> were arrested attempting to sneak in a drink for<BR>> Terri, including 4 children as<BR>> young as 10 years old.<BR>> <BR>> The Florida legislature met, and passed another law<BR>> requiring more<BR>> scrutiny before an alleged PVS patient can be<BR>> terminated. Judge Greer<BR>> immediately declared it "unconstitutional", citing<BR>> the aforementioned <BR>> inalienable right to kill.<BR>> <BR>> Congress issued a subpeona to Michael and Terri,<BR>> requiring them to testify<BR>> before congress on the issue (thus delaying her<BR>> execution). Judge Greer<BR>> thumbed his nose and stuck out his tongue.<BR>> <BR>> Congress met in an
 emergency session, and passed a<BR>> law, signed by<BR>> President Bush, giving advocates for disabled<BR>> patients about to be<BR>> terminated the right to appeal to the Federal<BR>> courts. The Schindlers<BR>> immediately appealed, and the Federal district court<BR>> refused to hear their<BR>> case. They appealed to the Supreme Court, and the<BR>> Supreme Court refused<BR>> to hear their case.<BR>> <BR>> Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida announced that he had<BR>> the authority to take <BR>> Terri into protective custody, and dispatched a<BR>> National Guard unit to do <BR>> so. But then he changed his mind and called them<BR>> back, saying he didn't <BR>> really have that authority.<BR>> <BR>> Meanwhile, witnesses of the final removal of Terri's<BR>> feeding tube <BR>> testified before Judge Greer that Terri had uttered<BR>> 4 more simple words <BR>> after its removal: "I want to live". Lawyers for<BR>>
 Michael dismissed this <BR>> as "unconscious groans consistent with PVS".<BR>> <BR>> QUESTIONS<BR>> <BR>> Who, ultimately, do the police putting Terri to<BR>> death take orders from? <BR>> Are they following those orders because they believe<BR>> Terri is actually<BR>> PVS? Or are they just afraid of losing their jobs? <BR>> Or have they never <BR>> considered the issue? Is Terri dead yet?<BR>> <BR>> CONCLUSION<BR>> <BR>> Once you're labelled as PVS, you're a goner.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -- <BR>> Stuart D. Gathman <STUART at BMSI.COM><BR>> Business Management Systems Inc. Phone: 703<BR>> 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154<BR>> "Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" -<BR>> background song for<BR>> a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from<BR>> here?" commercial.<BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> Apologetics mailing list<BR>> Apologetics at gathman.org<BR>>
 http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics<BR>> <BR><BR><BR>ART KELLY, ATM-S<BR>13524 Brightfield Lane <BR>Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360 <BR>(703) 904-3763 home<BR>arthurkelly at yahoo.com<BR>ArtK135 at Netscape.net<BR>art.kelly at cox.net<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Apologetics mailing list<BR>Apologetics at gathman.org<BR>http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR><DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf>Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul longs for you, O God.</FONT></EM></DIV></FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000bf><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms">Ps 42:1</FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf size=1></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000bf size=1></FONT></EM> </DIV></DIV></DIV><p>
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