[Apologetics] Re: Fw: Re: The Situations in the Catholic and Anglican Churches Are NOT Similar!

Sat Feb 26 19:48:23 EST 2005

Ward,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and for the Bible
verses you provided.

I don't know that it is at odds with my thoughts,
which are that circumstances can be different. 

It may not be approriate for a "ONE strike and you're
out" of the priesthood for EVERYONE. There may be
circumstances which could mitigate that rule, even if
only rarely.

In any case, it is the policy of the U.S. bishops and
Stuart's attempt to say that this issue "is still
being debated" is just NOT true. 

The issue has been definitely decided, even though
there are Catholic laymen like me who think that you
can and should be tough, while at the same time
looking at each individual situation.

Furthermore, while the Episcopal Church thinks
homosexuality is A-OK, no one at all in the Catholic
Church defends homosexuality. Everyone understands
that it is gravely sinful.

We should pray for the repentance of sinners. We
should never say that a serious offense God is not a
mortal sin.

Art

--- Ward Collins <hik4fun at citlink.net> wrote:

> This is as most any group  {The U.S. bishops } after
> enough pressure they
> finally quit hiding the sin and take steps, how long
> ago is some time back?
> and what has taken so long and why all the cover
> ups? I believe that the
> truth is what is in the heart come out in the
> person, the person who did the
> original sin is very bad, the one who covers it up
> is worse as they
> participate in the sin and enabled it to continue,
> elders and heads
> government are set up to protect, not to allow them
> to continue in hurting
> others, if I have a watch dog that kill chickens
> while over watching them I
> will not move it to a different coup, instead I move
> it out of their range,
> down to watch the gate at the end of the lane it
> does not take a theologian
> to know this, I have to move away from my weakness
> so I don't wallow in my
> sin, this is why God said PUT AWAY, it means to flee
> get out not move to a
> different town and wallow in it, hence if any man
> hath a ear let him hear
> and he will follow,
> Mark 7:13-23
> 13: Making the word of God of none effect through
> your tradition, which ye
> have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
> [14] And when he had called all the people unto him,
> he said unto them,
> Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
> [15] There is nothing from without a man, that
> entering into him can defile
> him: but the things which come out of him, those are
> they that defile the
> man.
> [16] If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
> [17] And when he was entered into the house from the
> people, his disciples
> asked him concerning the parable.
> [18] And he saith unto them, Are ye so without
> understanding also? Do ye not
> perceive, that whatsoever thing from without
> entereth into the man, it
> cannot defile him;
> [19] Because it entereth not into his heart, but
> into the belly, and goeth
> out into the draught, purging all meats?
> [20] And he said, That which cometh out of the man,
> that defileth the man.
> [21] For from within, out of the heart of men,
> proceed evil thoughts,
> adulteries, fornications, murders,
> [22] Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit,
> lasciviousness, an evil eye,
> blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
> [23] All these evil things come from within, and
> defile the man.
> 
> Matt 18:6  But whoso shall offend one of these
> little ones which believe in
> me, it were better for him that a millstone were
> hanged about his neck, and
> that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
> 
> Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these
> little ones that believe
> in me, it is better for him that a millstone were
> hanged about his neck, and
> he were cast into the sea.
> 
> Luke17:2 It were better for him that a millstone
> were hanged about his neck,
> and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend
> one of these little
> ones.
> 
> Rev18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a
> great millstone, and cast
> it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall
> that great city Babylon be
> thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
> 22.  And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of
> pipers, and trumpeters,
> shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no
> craftsman, of whatsoever craft
> he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the
> sound of a millstone shall
> be heard no more at all in thee;
> The key here is if any man hath a ear to hear, for
> many do not hear even
> though they have ears.
> NOTE, the first three writer were lead to write  the
> same verse, God must be
> serious about this?
> Ward
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Art Kelly" <arthurkelly at yahoo.com>
> To: <apologetics at gathman.org>
> Sent: 25 February 2005 Friday 11:48 PM
> Subject: [Apologetics] Re: The Situations in the
> Catholic and Anglican
> Churches Are NOT Similar!
> 
> 
> > Stuart,
> >
> > You are absolutely WRONG!
> >
> > The U.S. bishops voted in Dallas sometime back for
> a
> > "one strike and you're out" policy.
> >
> > In my own view, that may have been too harsh.
> >
> > The Catholic Church is in the business of
> forgiveness
> > and there may be some particular circumstances
> where a
> > priest is both truly sorry and unquestionably
> > rehabilitated. To say that he MUST leave the
> > priesthood provides no room for exceptions.
> >
> > Nevertheless, it IS the policy of the Catholic
> Church
> > in the U.S.
> >
> > Maybe you mean it is still being debated by people
> > like me who want to have a tough policy but one
> that
> > still provides some degree of flexibililty when
> the
> > situation warrants it.
> >
> > There are some good Catholics who think the
> bishops
> > may have over-reacted a bit and should fine-tune
> the
> > policy to allow for possible rare exceptions to
> their
> > "one strike and you're out" policy.
> >
> > The situations in the Catholic Church and the
> > Anglican/Episcopal Church are NOT in any way
> similar.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > --- "Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Bret wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bret's comments: Stop by 2008 or else, they
> say!
> > > By then thousands will have
> > > > been \"ordained!\"  They lie like Amway
> uplines!
> > >
> > > It pretty disappointing, alright.  Meanwhile, US
> > > Catholics are *still*
> > > debating whether child molesters should be
> restored
> > > to active ministry.
> > > I think we are all in big trouble.
> > >
> > > -- 
> > >       Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
> > >     Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703
> > > 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
> > > "Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis"
> -
> > > background song for
> > > a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go
> from
> > > here?" commercial.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Apologetics mailing list
> > > Apologetics at gathman.org
> > > http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ART KELLY, ATM-S
> > 13524 Brightfield Lane
> > Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
> > (703) 904-3763 home
> > arthurkelly at yahoo.com
> > ArtK135 at Netscape.net
> > art.kelly at cox.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Apologetics mailing list
> > Apologetics at gathman.org
> > http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Apologetics mailing list
> Apologetics at gathman.org
> http://bmsi.com/mailman/listinfo/apologetics
> 

=====
ART KELLY, ATM-S
13524 Brightfield Lane 
Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360 
(703) 904-3763 home
arthurkelly at yahoo.com
ArtK135 at Netscape.net
art.kelly at cox.net