[Apologetics] USA Today: Rite of baptism trickles away

Fri Apr 14 18:26:07 EDT 2006

Thanks, Bret, for your superb comments.

A book I intend to buy soon is A Shepherd Speaks 
by Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz.

Art

--- Bret Bellamy <bbellamy at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Good points, Art!  Marty, you hit the nail on the
> head!  
> 
> Marty asked: "The question is: where do we get
> bishops who can draw a line in the sand? There's
> doesn't seem to be anybody around."
> 
> Oh boy, don't get me started, especially on Good
> Friday!  There are a few good bishops around, ones
> that clearly draw the line, Bruskewitz in Lincoln,
> NE comes to mind as an example.  We need a couple of
> hundred like Fr. O'Brien, Bishop Fulton Sheen, and
> Mother Angelica!  Yeah, Mother Angelica.  That
> little old lady nun has more pepper in her than so
> many of our bishops.  She is clear about Truth,
> Tradition and Doctrine; nobody has to wonder where
> she stands.  People don't have to like it or agree
> with it, but at least with her you know what's what
> and she's consistent, not changing with each shift
> in the wind.
> 
> But then again, I'm likely preaching to the choir.
> 
> Bret
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Marty Rothwell <martyr225 at cox.net>
> >Sent: Apr 14, 2006 3:19 AM
> >To: Art Kelly <arthurkelly at yahoo.com>, Apologetics
> Group <apologetics at gathman.org>, Jim Murphy
> <jmurf80 at bellsouth.net>, Michele Allen
> <arochaallen at juno.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Apologetics] USA Today: Rite of
> baptism trickles away
> >
> >I'm all for what you say, Art.  I know that when I
> dumb-down my classes,
> >only dummies start taking them.  The thinkers are
> not interested in a
> >watered-down class, only the lazy and the dummies. 
> When I make the class
> >harder, then the motivated people start coming and
> the lazy and dummies drop
> >out.  It is the exact same thing with the Church. 
> If we water it down, then
> >(surprise!) the only people in the pews are
> watered-down Catholics!  If we
> >make Catholicism mean something, then the
> watered-down Catholics become
> >Methodists and the on-fire Methodists become
> Catholic.
> >
> >The question is: where do we get bishops who can
> draw a line in the sand?
> >There's doesn't seem to be anybody around.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: apologetics-admin at gathman.org
> [mailto:apologetics-admin at gathman.org]On
> >Behalf Of Art Kelly
> >Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:19 AM
> >To: Apologetics Group; Jim Murphy; Michele Allen
> >Subject: [Apologetics] USA Today: Rite of baptism
> trickles away
> >
> >This article in USA Today claims that baptisms are
> >declining in mainstream Protestant, fundamentalist
> >Protestant, and--get this!--Catholic Churches.
> >
> >The article states that, while membership in the
> >Catholic Church has greatly increased, baptisms
> have
> >not.
> >
> >Rite of baptism trickles away
> >Updated 4/12/2006 9:38 PM ET
> >By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY
> >
> >Every month there's a cheering, weeping,
> >air-horn-tooting celebration at First Assembly of
> God
> >in North Little Rock, when the Rev. Rod Loy
> immerses
> >new believers in the baptismal tank.
> >
> >"This is a sign that someone understands the ideas
> of
> >sin and Christ's sacrifice and willfully chooses to
> be
> >a lifelong follower of Jesus," says the pastor. "So
> we
> >celebrate it big."
> >
> >For believers, baptism is modeled on their savior,
> who
> >the Bible says waded into the water to consecrate
> >himself to God.
> >
> >They may be sprinkled, washed from a flowing
> pitcher
> >or immersed, as faith rituals vary. But all forms
> >point to beliefs: rebirth in faith, salvation from
> >sin, acceptance of God's promises and charges.
> >
> >For parents who bring a baby before their church,
> >baptism is a pledge of their faith, a shield
> against
> >evil, a wrapping of communal arms around a
> defenseless
> >soul.
> >
> >For Christians of all denominations, "even if they
> >never darkened the door of a church any other time
> in
> >their life ... there's a tendency to hold onto this
> >life-cycle marker," says the Rev. Paul Sullins, a
> >sociologist at Catholic University in Washington,
> D.C.
> >
> >Yet, this Easter, the holy day of resurrection,
> >statistics find Americans slowly drifting away from
> >the ancient baptismal ritual.
> >
> >The Catholic Church has more than doubled in size
> in
> >the past half-century, but its rate of infant
> baptism
> >steadily has fallen, Sullins says.
> >
> >Methodists and Lutherans have seen both baptisms
> and
> >their membership numbers slide for years.
> >
> >Even Loy's denomination, the Assemblies of God,
> which
> >has had a boom in membership since 1980, saw its
> >annual baptism numbers peak in 1997, then inch
> >downward.
> >
> >The Southern Baptist Convention has seen a
> >half-century decline in baptisms and stalled growth
> in
> >membership.
> >
> >The full article is at
>
>http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006-04-12-baptism-trend_x.htm
> >
> >I would seriously question the methodology for
> >determining the growth in Catholic Church
> membership.
> >Based on the number registered in parishes?
> >Self-identified persons in polls? Or what?
> >
> >My own take is that, for Catholics, parents who do
> not
> >have their children baptized are NOT really
> Catholics
> >and should NOT be counted as Catholics.
> >
> >As an aside, beware of polls that purport to show
> what
> >Catholics think about an issue. Unless the persons
> >claiming to be Catholics are then screened (How
> often
> >do you go to Church?), answers can be very
> deceptive.
> >
> >I may ask my pastor and a couple of other priests
> if
> >they think there has been any decline in baptisms.
> I
> >doubt it, but if there have been, it is because the
> >Church has sometimes failed to "lay down the law"
> >regarding what it takes to be a Catholic.
> >
> >Without relating this to baptism specifically, I
> >wonder if, in the past few decades, the Catholic
> >Church has become too much of "a big tent."
> >Interestingly, just before he become Pope, Cardinal
> >Ratzinger expressed the view that the Church needs
> to
> >get SMALLER.
> >
> >Perhaps the Church will start to "draw a line in
> the
> >sand," and make it clear that, while all are
> welcome,
> >anyone who wishes to be a Catholic must believe a,
> b,
> >and c; may not believe c, d, and e; must do f, g,
> and
> >h; and may not do i, j, and k.
> >
> >Those who don't want to meet the requirements for
> >being a Catholic should try another religion.
> >
> >To a large degree, they already have.
> >
> >Coming up on Easter, both Catholic and Protestant
> >churches will see a TREMENDOUS number of persons
> who
> >come to services who do not normally attend.
> >
> >The good news is they still come AT LEAST once or
> >twice a year. They haven't totally lost their
> faith.
> >The bad news is that they ONLY come once or twice a
> >year. Whatever part of their faith they still have
> is
> >very nominal.
> >
> >These Easter Catholics and Protestants are not
> >practicing their faiths and, for polling purposes,
> >should not be counted as members of the
> denominations
> >to which they still identify.
> >
> >I'm certainly not advocating a Church of Christian
> >superstars. In come ways, the Church can be thought
> of
> >as a spiritual hospital, helping people to overcome
> >sin and obtain spiritual health.
> >
> >But to obtain salvation, a person must WANT to take
> up
> >their cross and follow Jesus.
> >
> >As far as I can tell, the decline in weekly
> attendance
> >of mainstream Protestant denominations which are
> >Christian Lite (you know what I mean) is NO LESS
> than
> >the declines in fundamentalist (hard shell)
> >Protestants and Catholics (who are, to some degree,
> in
> >the middle).
> >
> >So, any theory that goes, "Well, maybe we can get
> them
> >back if we soft peddle our doctrines on (fill in
> the
> >blank)" does NOT appear to work.
> >
> >Maybe there's a place for some Protestant churches
> >which advertise, "Open doors and open minds." On
> >second thought, what good is a Christian church
> that
> >ignores the plain words of the Bible?
> >
> >I'd like to think Catholic churches would actually
> >stand strongly for immutable doctrines and not be
> so
> >afraid of offending anyone.
> >
> >Art
> >
> >
> >  ART KELLY, ATM-S
> >  13524 Brightfield Lane
> >  Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
> >  (703) 904-3763 home
> >  (703) 396-6956 work
> >  arthurkelly at yahoo.com
> >  art.kelly at cox.net
> >  ArtK135 at Netscape.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> 

  ART KELLY, ATM-S
  13524 Brightfield Lane
  Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
  (703) 904-3763 home
  (703) 396-6956 work
  arthurkelly at yahoo.com
  art.kelly at cox.net
  ArtK135 at Netscape.net

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