[Apologetics] Re:Area priests see little demand for Latin Mass

Wed Sep 5 00:45:41 EDT 2007

Art,

  We seem to be right back where this whole discussion started.  I don't understand the point you're trying to make by listing the differences.  Of course there are differences.  However, none of these differences make either Mass valid or invalid, licit or illicit.  They are both valid forms of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

  I disagree with the "less lay participation" part.  From the time I was in first grade I knew all of the altar server/congregation parts - IN LATIN - and understood what I was saying.  My mother made sure of that.

  Although I know you were repeating what the Diocese of Richmond said, I take exception with the phrase "just bread."  We both know it's not "just bread" but the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord.  As such it cannot be divided.  Therefore He is no less present when Communion is distributed under one species as opposed to both.  As a matter of fact, the GIRM is very specific that Communion under both species is NOT to be a common occurance.  There are only four conditions under which Communion should be distributed under both species.

  And indeed, since no one today calls into doubt in any way the doctrinal principles on the complete efficacy of eucharistic Communion under the species of bread alone, the Council thus gave permission for the reception of Communion under both kinds on some (emphasis added) occasions... (CF GIRM art 14)

  they should instruct the Christian faithful that the Catholic faith teaches that Christ, whole and entire, and the true Sacrament, is received even under only one species, and consequently that as far as the effects are concerned, those who receive under only one species are not deprived of any of the grace that is
  necessary for salvation. (CF GIRM art. 282)

  In addition to those cases given in the ritual books, Communion under both kinds is permitted for
a. Priests who are not able to celebrate or concelebrate Mass; 
b. The deacon and others who perform some duty at the Mass; 
c. Members of communities at the conventual Mass or "community" Mass, along with seminarians, and all who are engaged in a retreat or are taking part in a spiritual or pastoral gathering.

  The Diocesan Bishop may establish norms for Communion under both kinds for his own diocese, which are also to be observed in churches of religious and at celebrations with small groups. The Diocesan Bishop is also given the faculty to permit Communion under both kinds whenever it may seem appropriate to the priest to whom, as its own shepherd, a community has been entrusted, provided that the faithful have been well instructed and there is no danger of profanation of the Sacrament or of the rite's becoming difficult because of the large number of participants or some other reason.

In all that pertains to Communion under both kinds, the Norms for the Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion under Both Kinds in the Dioceses of the United States of America are to be followed (see nos. 27-54). (CF GIRM art. 283)

  As far as the use of Latin in the Mass goes, the GIRM also provides for that:

  Since faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently, it is fitting that they know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, set to the simpler melodies.51  (art 41)

  Since no Catholic would now deny the lawfulness and efficacy of a sacred rite celebrated in Latin (emphasis added),... (GIRM art. 12)

  Dianne

Art Kelly <arthurkelly at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Did you see what the Diocese of Richmond said were the
differences between the current rite of the Mass and
the Tridentine?

(The Richmond Diocese has a reputation for
liberalism.)

Old-style Latin Mass

Some differences in the 16th century Tridentine Mass:

The rite is entirely in Latin. 
The priest faces the altar and has his back to the
congregation. 
There is less lay participation. 
Just bread is used in Communion, instead of bread and
wine.
Source: The Catholic Diocese of Richmond

--- Dianne Dawson wrote:

> I'm not surprised at this. 
> 1) The Motu Proprio is still fairly new. 
> 2) It doesn't actually take effect until Oct. 1
> (?).
> 3) People who prefer the Latin Mass have been
> shunned and denigrated by their priests for so long
> that a lot of people are still reluctant to ask for
> it.
> 
> The recent discussion in this forum is a good
> example of what many people experience. Both sides
> of the "Latin Mass" debate make good points. 
> However, I don't understand why there is such a knee
> jerk reaction whenever the Latin Mass is mentioned. 
> If it was good enough for the universal Church for
> hundreds and hundreds of years, why is it all of a
> sudden totally wrong? (this is a rhetorical
> question)
> 
> Personally, sometimes my soul needs to jump and
> shout to a good ol' gospel-style Mass, sometimes the
> Novus Ordo, and sometimes the quiet, reverent, and
> mystical Tridentine Mass.
> 
> Dianne
> 
> Art Kelly wrote:
> Area priests see little demand for Latin Mass
> Church leaders likely would need special training to
> perform the old-style ceremony.
> By Pamela J. Podger
> 
> Several Roman Catholic priests in Southwest Virginia
> are thankful demand for the old-style Latin Mass
> hasn't emerged here because they are already
> stretched
> thin trying to serve rural parishes.
> 
> The full article is at
> http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-130387
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ART KELLY, ATM-S
> 13524 Brightfield Lane
> Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
> (703) 904-3763 home
> (703) 396-6956 work
> arthurkelly at yahoo.com
> art.kelly at cox.net
> ArtK135 at Netscape.net
> 
> 
> 
>
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> Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul
> longs for you, O God.
> 
> Ps 42:1
> 
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> 
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ART KELLY, ATM-S
13524 Brightfield Lane
Herndon, Virginia 20171-3360
(703) 904-3763 home
(703) 396-6956 work
arthurkelly at yahoo.com
art.kelly at cox.net
ArtK135 at Netscape.net

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