[Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?

[Stephen Korsman]

Hi

I totally agree.  It's interesting, yes.

I think I just took your statement and rephrased it ... then took it a bit further.  Sorry if I took you too much out of context.

These are really more than ultra-conservatives.  They're extremists.  They're like the Amish, only liturgically so.

By the end of the week we'll know, hopefully, what the SSPX decides about reunion.

God bless,
Stephen
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dianne Dawson 
  To: Stephen Korsman ; Apologetics Group ; Jim Murphy ; Michele Allen ; Lynn Kelly ; Nancy Penta ; Carol Beutner ; Mary Sullivan 
  Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?


  Stephen,
  I believe I said that they "tend to lean more toward the ultra-conservative."  While I don't agree with their stance on the Novus Ordo or the papacy, those views don't make the article uninteresting.
  Dianne

  Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul longs for you, O God.
  Ps 42:1





  ----- Original Message ----
  From: Stephen Korsman <skorsman at theotokos.co.za>
  To: Dianne Dawson <rcdianne at yahoo.com>; Apologetics Group <apologetics at gathman.org>; Jim Murphy <jmurf80 at bellsouth.net>; Michele Allen <arochaallen at juno.com>; Lynn Kelly <lkelly at nvrinc.com>; Nancy Penta <nancy.penta at loudoun.gov>; Carol Beutner <buet4u at verizon.net>; Mary Sullivan <maryshanno at gmail.com>
  Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:16:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?


  Hi

  The Traditional Mass website appears to be run by ultra-"conservatives", yes - more "conservative" than the SSPX.  In fact, they appear to be an SSPX splinter group, and sede vacantists at that.

  The website links to their parish - http://www.sgg.org/

  The parish website links to a page about their clergy - http://www.sgg.org/general-info/clergy/

  Their bishop was ordained a priest by Lefebvre, and later left due to Lefebvre's liturgical reforms.

  The page states:

  As a seminarian at Ecône in autumn 1973, he had already come to the conclusion that the only logical explanation for evil of the the New Mass and the errors of Vatican II was that Paul VI, due to personal heresy, had lost the pontificate. Ever since, he has steadfastly held that position regarding Paul VI and his successors, and never once acknowledged them as popes in the Canon of his Mass.

  Their articles at http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/index.php include several on the heresies of Pope (they don't call him that) Benedict XVI, and a host of other oddities, including their sede vacantist position.

  Their seminary is the Most Holy Trinity Seminary in Warren, Michigan, is sede vacantist:

  The Seminary professes that Vatican II and the doctrinal, disciplinary and liturgical reforms which have proceeded from it are substantial alterations of the Catholic Faith. It professes that these heretical, evil, and blasphemous reforms can in no way proceed from the Roman Catholic Church, since she is infallible in her doctrines, her disciplines, and her liturgical worship. The Seminary therefore professes that the members of the Novus Ordo hierarchy (including and especially Benedict XVI), despite any and all appearances of authority, are not true Catholic popes nor true Catholic bishops, and do not possess the authority to rule, for they are the authors of the doctrinal, disciplinary and liturgical abominations which have invaded our holy places. The Seminary professes that they are false shepherds, and ought to be denounced as such. -- http://www.mostholytrinityseminary.org/aboutus.htm

  God bless,
  Stephen

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Dianne Dawson 
    To: Apologetics Group ; Jim Murphy ; Michele Allen ; Lynn Kelly ; Nancy Penta ; Carol Beutner ; Mary Sullivan 
    Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 3:11 PM
    Subject: Re: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?


    Even though the folks at Traditional Mass tend to lean more toward the ultra-conservative, there is an interesting comparison of the Pius V Mass and the John XXIII Mass at: http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=18&catname=6

    Also, there is an interesting forum discussion, "How does the EF (1962) differ from the Mass of the 1950's?" at: http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=431

    Dianne


    Like a deer that longs for running waters so my soul longs for you, O God.
    Ps 42:1





    ----- Original Message ----
    From: Art Kelly <arthurkelly at yahoo.com>
    To: Apologetics Group <apologetics at gathman.org>; Jim Murphy <jmurf80 at bellsouth.net>; Michele Allen <arochaallen at juno.com>; Lynn Kelly <lkelly at nvrinc.com>; Nancy Penta <nancy.penta at loudoun.gov>; Carol Beutner <buet4u at verizon.net>; Mary Sullivan <maryshanno at gmail.com>
    Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 11:52:44 PM
    Subject: [Apologetics] Latin Days Are Here Again?

          Latin Days Are Here Again?



          In Newsweek, George Weigel writes in part:


          It was to accelerate that "reform of the reform" that Benedict XVI issued a decree last summer permitting the widespread use of the 1962 Roman rite, known technically as the Missal of John XXIII. Amidst the recent, fevered speculations that Latin days are here again, it's important to note what the Missal of John XXIII is not. It is not the "Tridentine Rite," because it includes modifications of the missal mandated by the Council of Trent in the 16th century; it is not the "mass of Pius V," which some Catholic megatraditionalists argue is the only valid form of Catholic worship. It is, in fact, the mass as celebrated every day at every session of the Second Vatican Council.



          The full article is at

          http://www.newsweek.com/id/142217



          Art
         





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